In Meat We Trust: An Unexpected History of Carnivore America

December 18, 2013

When it comes to the meat industry, there is no shortage of opinion about whether large meat producers and packers are good or bad, but how and why did meat production become so controversial? How did we arrive at the production model we use today?

Author Maureen Ogle says that early in American history eating meat was a symbol of status and that consumers demanded low cost meat for their families. That, in addition to industrialization and the move of many Americans from rural areas to cities, is all a part of the very complex history of meat production in America. This hour on Focus, Ogle talks about her new book “In Meat We Trust,” with host Jim Meadows. She’ll tell us more about why most of the meat we consume comes from a large factory farm rather than from a small family owned farm and about why Americans eat so much chicken.

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Transcript for file: focus131218a.mp3

00:00:00

america is a country raised on meat produce lots of it and eat lunch
the date of the first European settlers way Americans treated wood supply
supply affordable meat is practically are birthright livestock in meatpacking
packing industries of come up with ways of satisfying back to me some of the message

00:00:30

message for this is what writer Marino CLE says that for better or worse
does message server our desire for cheap in plentiful meet Jim Adams
Marino Chronicles Americas cravings and the industry that feed
what feeds it in her book in me tweet rust guest today on Fox

are program continues after the news
welcome to focus on Jim meadows in a little confession here I eat meat

00:01:05

usually at every meal even more frequently than that because the snack
snack machine in the building where I work offers a couple of meat products to something that I don’t
I don’t think would have been the case of the decades ago there’s a lot of debate about to wake me
meat is produced in the US in meats role in the American diet but there’s nothing new
new about the fact that the US produces and consumes a tremendous amount
amount of meat and our guest today Marino goals has the farmers and meat
meat packers do what they do in meat production order to satisfy a long stay

00:01:40

standing demand for the product Marino go lives in Iowa she has written
previously about beer history of Key West Florida an indoor pool
indoor plumbing at least indoor plumbing in America newest book is in meat We Trust
trust in unexpected history of carnivore America published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt
Harcourt and marina welcome to focus thanks for having me I appreciate you
Marine the first of surprising thing I learn from reading a book
is how is how much a mother how long has been a part of the Mack

00:02:15

American died and I mean a primary part of the American diet ever since
apparently the first European settlers came here it seems Americans have been
7 a custom to eating meat eating a lot of meat much more so than other people
people around the world upright and II should just tell your listeners a backdrop
drop to the store and I have no no agenda
I’m not at fault in food store in and when I set up to write a book I knew absolutely
nothing about me to Serena merica not one iota high school

00:02:50

um because I prefer to write about things I don’t know anything about so so I thought what where am I
where am I going to start and I decided to just look at the colonial period syncing
something roll over there and I was flabbergasted to discover where to learn
turn that says you say when a white Europeans came to
into North America in the early 1600s the greatest cultural shock to say
experience was that there was an infinite amount of
how to plant now they had come from World War both Lands End food

00:03:25

scarce came here and realize that the purposes everyone here
here is well as the Kings back in England the Kings back in Europe and they proceed
proceeded to turn North America into a livestock in MTG
vana one way they did this again I didn’t know this
this is very interesting to me um Native Americans did not
not keep anything message life sucks a8 primarily venison and other games
no animals they had no Barnesville fences nothing in from the white people active

00:04:00

thats that allow them from any accessible into the white
European said if you don’t practice your not civilized growing crops
native son depending on which side are you looking at group from Cincinnati
the book well at yes is a certain group crops b***
didn’t keep animals the Europeans said you’re not a special porn
points for you that’s right they in in European size mark of civilization
civilized people from savages was domesticated animals

00:04:35

and that was all the justification they needed a 5 from office Lands End
end up its started then and but by the time the revolution broke out of 1770
76 Americans were already very well known for their prodigious
Mediapolis type and for front what the term settled on with her son
Even Stevens service center service with simply sit down refused
used to work if they didn’t get me when they thought they should have it they would never have eaten at well in your world
world weather for me go further I want to invite a question about meat from a R

00:05:10

art listeners is me to big are small part of your life are you choose
choosey where your meat comes from or how it’s been raised or are you just
just a proud vegetarian or vegan welcome your comments and your questions for Moreno Valley
are toll free number at focus is 1 800 22295
9455 that’s 1 800 222 w I ll
email us at will dash talk at illinois.edu
and I you can also find us on Facebook and Twitter at focus 58

00:05:45

80 make me to put this in context in info
we’ve got to the point we were eating a meat 3 times a day here is that
is that different in different even today in other parts of the world very much so
we we are fun ways to meters in the world the so-called
developed nations first world has a relatively have the need
meet appetito vote not talk what is extreme is ours in this country upper calf
Capital weed on average about 225 pounds of beef or chicken year

00:06:20

which means some people are eating a lot more because that’s just an average
in the Western world in the in the First World siding
chorus many people in the rest of the world on and that has become by the way a strain
rain on dagger control system hear the United States because as more people in other
other parts of the world RFA 1 day also add more me to their diet
diet and many of those people get it from the United States or in case
taste of China there actually find American know how is technology to foster

00:06:55

Foster the production meeting their country well that’s that brings up something
ask you about and that’s the recent acquisition buy a Chinese company
Smithfield which I understand its like the biggest port processor in the United States
and it’s against the son of assumption is that the new owners of Smith
Smithfield the sides leaning on their breasts on their on their know how is ripe
Francisco to channel a lot of the production of vagina the price is the
the entire episode what happened what about 6 months ago I guess now went wrong

00:07:30

song we bought Smithfield Smithfield is the largest American bass company is the largest producer
are in the world um a Chinese company bought this and I was fascinated because
Chinese now are exactly where Americans were about 130 years ago
urban development understanding agriculture and meat production in this country
tree man vast majority of living cities
obviously about city people is so obvious that most of us forget we don’t make our own food
reliance Farmers the Chinese now or in that in that situation they are intentionally

00:08:05

nationally building an urban infrastructure because they’re trying to get
how to get more people into science and manufacturing in of arms and that means that there at
agricultural population has to become infinitely more efficient than it is now
now and Chong we made a very savvy decision they simply boss
the best pork producing technology in the world when they bought Smithfield
food up because they want the technology to feed
what is become rapidly becoming the largest urban society in the world gargantuan

00:08:40

when compared any other place the same thing I my dad at Tyson recently announced
gin setting up is American style poultry chicken farm
Farms for the production in China just going to transplant that technology wholesale
China the Chinese are still operating with a relatively
relatively primitive agriculture is not it is not enough to feed
urban populations are going to have to step it up real fast so there’s a fine art
are electoral know how you know I’m looking at on an op-ed piece

00:09:15

peace in the New York Post and I this is just from a couple of days ago Express Inc
concern about all the Smiths is a sales Smitty of Smithfield does the Shaun White
Conway snoting that does alot of export to Japan what you know export alibi
buy a Chinese company um but also what they feel is a Lhasa
Ocelot of town is far is American companies in the American beat production system
system is involved is concerned is this going to
going to make a difference in the meat supply in the US

00:09:50

well here hear the sword of a complicated answer that but for me this is become the cross
what is the issue as I’m expecting any of your listeners know there’s a tremendous bass
going on in this country about agriculture in general but about the production in particular
many critics would like to dismantle our existing system
don’t like to find much for the Wii have small family farms
arms with diverse cropping in livestock and that all be organic
my take on that is the best of very foolish movie

00:10:25

we Americans have invested over four centuries we have invested
extraordinary amount of intellectual and monetary capital
building a kind of agricultural system we have if we turn our backs on that we go back to this
what is the sum Emagine Royal Idol where you know little family farms
applying for food and everything is local we’re going to be giving away a tremendous
mount not just a economically in terms of our national
national identity not just a beacon of hope for the world we have 44 Century City

00:11:00

world way back in the colonial period why does farmers worshiping pack meat abroad
broad and um if we decide to give that up I can tell you
categorically that some country will step forward and take that over that roll
do it will likely be the Chinese because you’re being very aggressive about buying
the signs of Technology wee wee wee people think long and hard before
before they pass out of the baby in the bath water when I’m sad and I should know to New York
New York Post writer on Diane Francis II think would what does ceasing so

00:11:35

least partly your way but other the the
the point of view you’re talking about might be in capsulated in another artist
article obscene on the other Smithfield acquisition by son
buy Segway and that’s Mark Bittman in the New York Times write you sound
sounds like you for that day before of course I have yes and I’m just trying to look at a relevant
even while he is expressing concerns expressing concern in a
the different contacts um in terms of

00:12:10

you know in terms of the loss of this beat production stream to the US
um he writes almost anything that reduces consumption of industrial eat
really produced meat is a plus reducing its production is
is equally important and there’s the rub industrial produced meat
um is it did sounds like a bit of a buzz word but its and it’s
it sounds like what you just said not the not this is not not a phrase that you’re really into
212 th don’t want to pick up

00:12:45

who again in case you don’t know us started out as a food writer for The New York Times
now become their leading boys for agricultural reform
my complaint about people like Mark Bittman and Michael pollen
one and Alice Waters is they
this is going to be in critical of them I guess maybe I am say have a very simplistic
view of the role that agriculture place and there
simplistic view has let them to Impractical alternative dandy to think about

00:13:20

about getting rid of industrial life sucks Mike like to do
who is sandy to talk about decreasing meat consumption which mall hours
decrease or reliance industrial systems but none of them are coming up
with Bible alternative to that’s a some other then we just
I don’t think that practical II I just
just dont think its practical to assume that everybody out there is going to be around the world
is going to suddenly stop eating meat if we get rid of this

00:13:55

is this so called industrial system and that’s their term for it we need practical
Rachael alternatives and I’m not see that coming from their Direction there there’s a little
little bit of pie in the sky going on and its its not
it’s not it does not add to a very productive discussion if I change agriculture we gotta think
really hard about what’s going to happen if we do that I’m not
not I don’t want to sound like I’m a cheerleader for so-called industrial life
what production I’m just saying it’s going to be a practical and very real price to pay

00:14:30

hey everybody on the planet if we do this so let’s think about it what do you think that in
set in terms of people riding the media button terms of people who
people who trained the levers of a off of me production of the country on the market for meeting this country
it’s such a thing but actually happen well that’s that
what people like Mark Bittman again I’m not trying to pick up more fitness
mark I am sure he believes in his heart what are you doing
its it’s just not that simple and I think that people like him are

00:15:05

are represent frankly of a very vocal
well organized minorities you I’m pretty sure that if I walk down the street
where where I live in Ames Iowa knock on doors and ask my neighbors are you looking for what you know
what you know about local food do you know who Michael Pollan is 40 questions like that I think I would
mostly blank stares I think that most people in this country
don’t really think very hard about the agricultural system
and who complain that because we are so surrounded by food we just

00:15:40

we just don’t really think about it the end and that’s why I fear that when people like that
safe we got to decrease we can something so that we can get rid of this system
not necessarily wine up behind them
until we make sure there really taken at the right direction II am hoping that my boy
my book I have no skin in the game at all I don’t have an agenda
and I’m just a historian I would really like people to read this book and think hard
about the complexities this is a very very complicated issue

00:16:15

this is focus on Jim Meadows were talking about the role of meat in American life with Mirena
Reno go she’s the author of in meat we trust in unexpected history of
3 of carnivore America Renovo talking to us from Ames Iowa this more about her ass
website merino cool one word doc calm if you have a
you have a question about all the meat we eat in the USA colors of 1 800
802 to 29455 are you can email your question 2 will dash time
talkit Illinois dot ETW in the phone number again 1 800 222 w

00:16:50

wyll and ascites phone or email you can send them to us and Twitter or Facebook
focus 580 Marine getting back to the other Smithfield
question and the concerns you express to know about essentially the lobster bisque
Davis meat production channel in what I gathered is a competitive industry
treat your feet if meat production goes down at one point is it likely that
someone is going to move into Phil of the field at Gap Smithfield
midfield may be very good but they do but its it’s not an exclusive secret

00:17:25

with them know that’s right they just happened Smithfield has grown the size that has because
because of the last roughly 25 years David Thorpe a lot a lot of hair
competitors and David store long is supply chain
Smithfield started out as a processor in the graduate acquired hog farm and actual
hot seduction Smithfield will continue because they have Chinese owners
does it mean your going to stop making food here in the USA absolutely will continue to do that
should a china say well forget it you know we’re not going to let you do this in the USA

00:18:00

absolutely somebody will come along and there are Tyson for sale
example another food giant Tyson started out of the broiler in the street
spoilers is the technical term for chickens raised for me back in the 1940’s and 50’s
what is the 19 late 1960s and 1970s it also in hot seduction sew in
it is it is it is Smithfield biggest rival and it is still here the USO
so there will always be somebody’s stuff in there is tremendous a man
man we we like someone’s going to show up to meet

00:18:35

man up and doing it on up on a smaller simple simpler skillet
not going to meet at a mad I see a friend again I think it sounds the lights
white full and wonderful and I by the way eat pork that comes from a pharmacy
about 100 miles away from where I live here in Iowa because why not and I are you
should say that by the way I was a vegetarian for 25 years and I XL
the average of 225 pounds your own lied about 25 pounds
your so I can justify paying higher price b***

00:19:10

but um but um but I realize I’m totally awesome curb weight
office so um yeah I got a man
the other issues to stress is a couple times we don’t just make me
are self the system that we have built up over a decade
decade by family farmers not the corporations the family farmers Fortran
trying to figure out how to splice a man but they also
horse not force a have also embrace a global marketplace

00:19:45

we we ship a lot of meat products around the world and again
this is a big complicated Wii system we have not just for us I don’t want to sound like a pig
the global cheerleader here but this industry is very much globally connected
and again twice what’s going to a call
do a cooler online 1 palm in Champaign County good morning around focus high
I think that there are a lot of good reasons to not eat meat with Euro
your stance on this um but I think that’s what I don’t understand why you’re sore

00:20:20

firestarter of Kansas what’s before calling industrial agriculture
culture causes premature as a very carbon intensive agriculture
I need to change to us help deal with climate change Actually
and that other are some people that say just by eating less meat you would be
helping with that and I think that’s accurate
I don’t know how you feel about that but I think we have an urgency
that is not acknowledge by any of the stance issue 5 postres you made

00:20:55

map of weed to do something now where we wait around
what up what kind of funeral idyllic service
family farm environment we will be waiting 22
too late to pick movement and I think that if you ask a person in Iowa local
local bar if you say you prefer to have food
grown locally I think you would find a different answers so um
Bethel Oct in the supposed to sting

00:21:30

thank you very much for calling I ate everything that he said
is very familiar to me and her I’m going to I’m going to give him my
my samsung that I understand that many people think that there are problems with
with so called industrial agriculture not just a lie South Campus crossing at
again having sent seven years researching the book one thing I understand it
fantasy defense build up in response to demand over many many decades in several
generations in when it comes to environmental impact

00:22:05

impact yes it would be great if we could shift 2
low carbon use organic agriculture that would be great
we’re still going to have to have very large scale agriculture
my take this world get in trouble and your own lines made out light up my
myPay kids that given the demand for me the starting point given the demand
the rest of the world the system we have is about as
how is the fishing is a composite bleeding because it affects the least number of people

00:22:40

applying the most amount of food is very isolated geographically
perfectly so that the impact on land air and water is limited Geographic
graphically and its effects effexor
paxil East number of people in a negative way if someone can’t figure out how to replace
that and still produce the same amount of food with a non carbon based system
customize a more power to the practical issues what kind of alternative
ternative that your collar talked about in the Mark Bittman favors on Michael Pollan requires a tremendous

00:23:15

mount of Labor I’m on other things one factor that has driven the shape of a
agriculture in the United States is lack of Labor not because farmers of the driven of Atlanta
bite by big evil corporations because Americans prefer to live
live in the city of people who moved town Fiore farmer say work and they say
have struggled to figure out how to make food for all those people without anyway
any labor the other really really big issue that none of the critics address
is the price of land farmers compete for land with ball owners

00:23:50

and housing developers and Highway builders over and over again when I was
why was researching for example the history of confinement in this country farmer said I can
I can’t afford keep my animals on pastor anymore I can’t afford to pay that price for lamb of God
I’ve gotta figure out another way to do it so I understand completely where he is coming
coming from what’s the practical realities still have to pee
address gotta be your your conclusion infirmary searching searching
search history the meat industry is that seems to be that the system of

00:24:25

off of growing animals and and and and processing meat
how for all its faults is the best we can do to meat
meet me to the man that is out there that’s right and again
let me just throw this intimate many of the critics like Mark Bittman Michael Paul
Michael Pollan so forth and I’m not picking on empathy recognizable name their the bottom line
online of the argument is not just sent this kind of Agriculture is not ecologically sustainable
Sanibel it is also that it is said the work of corporations have to run rough

00:25:00

run roughshod over the rest of it that simply is not true that’s one
1681 from researching the book much would the system we have now with the Sun
define built by family farmers yes we’re working with land grants and Extension School
cool agent to try to figure out with minimal and
very little labor to make food for everybody that’s why I
why I keep leaving but there’s a practical reason for why were we
where where were at a very practical reason so I’m just trying to be the practices

00:25:35

this year okay what time is short break right now and c**
come back and talk a little bit more I think I would like to ask Marino go about how
how we got to the place where we are with American meat production
action but right now let’s take a quick break this is focus on wyll
and we’re back on focus on WI
UIL LMG Meadows continuing talk about Mead and its role in America
American society my guess is Marino go to write about the subject in her new book in meat

00:26:10

meet we trust an unexpected history of carnivore America published by
Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Rd number here is 1 800 222
229 455 that’s 1 800 222 w yolu
email us at will dash talk and Illinois dot edu
and we’re on Twitter and focus and focus 580
ZrO im goin where to begin cause you do cover a lot of ground in your book
book one thing I was thinking of vomit when I thought about it because of something

00:26:45

reading a book baby got to go out looking for meat and I ended up buying a package I’m not a regular
regular bacon nearby bought a package of armor brand bacon
is owned by a big pimple amaranth now what armor is a person or was a person
the you write about to some degree in in your book as really buy a big
big part of the 19th century part of the development of
meat processing and distribution in this country right CSS
again the book the book opens with the colonial period but I threw that pretty quickly

00:27:20

quickly in and I should tell rearsets half of the book is voted to
second half of the 20th century because I really wanted to address a kind of hot button issues that your collar
collar mentioned earlier but but I buy cover
what was i thinkin um yes in here something that I didn’t
I didn’t know of prior to the 1870s the business of
of making it was very much in Irvine business farmers wood drive there
there livestock overland and then when Railroad kennel on shipping by rail

00:27:55

two cities and towns every city in town and country would have had a small stockyard and more
multiple firehouse is an even butchers what goes down to their local stockyards buy a steer
tear take it back through the streets of the butcher shop and then go in the back
slaughter the animals might be me being slaughtered in your neighborhood
what might be there was absolutely what I was Franklin kind of a gas
I didn’t know somehow I thought it was like now we’re all out there’s a country song
somewhere away from us in the 1870s American said well we’ve had enough

00:28:30

nothing that you know a modern American slavery concerned about making urban infrastructure
fishing is possible in is modern possible in the 1870 also Belfort
sample centralized vs decentralized water system today
and so they said okay we weave about had with the sickness of animal parade in all of his life
let’s get rid of them and the idea was first to move everything into a big one
16 centralized podcast Sox Waterhouse but then what what
what really evolve for the purposes was the slaughter

00:29:05

gravitate toward what is now the Midwest primarily to St Louis Chicago
cago en Kansas City became the big big
big stockyard city 66 Waterhouse cities and people like armor
Mansion Gustavus swift were entrepreneurs Perry
small scale entrepreneurs who said you know he retires a plan instead of shipping these animals
clear cross country I’m going to build a factory and figure out how to
how to slaughter the meet the animals hear and only ship to me which offered in Norman

00:29:40

saving dollar savings consumers does anyone carcass
is not entirely you supposed to ship a whole animal you’re going to end up with a lot of weight
proceso people like soul armor and Gus Swift in a matter of
founded how quickly does happens Facebook about 6 years completely over
overturn countries were the tradition of urban making and transform
transformed into this big Nationals System of a shipping justice
meet people needed in leaving all the mass of the products water engine

00:30:15

just a few isolated places now you write in your book later on a drink around the
1867 centers of a of love of off center
slaughterhouses were moved quien so for instance over the past of the future
decades of slaughterhouse area in Chicago is pretty much emptied out price
and the slaughterhouse is it now in more rural areas right
and that again I thought will you know how did how did we get from Chicago
stockyards close in 1971 Soho Astoria Astoria say to herself

00:30:50

what the heck happened and what happened to the saying I keep waiting on that growing
growing urban consumer demand here here is the one piece of information that helps make
make sense of all of this when you slaughter an animal
Americans are pretty f****** about the custody if a woman specially when it comes
come to be for soap Packers founded when they slaughter in animal they had a lot of stuff
stuff left over that they needed to deal with that they never Packers don’t make money
on the actual me to self make money by using

00:31:25

using byproducts that’s what really was subsidized is the cost of a freshly Andover decade
meat packers as Amanda Crew trying to find
find ways to reduce their costs eliminators many any fish in Caesars possible and as
as a result during the 1950s and 1960s meat packers begin
can bypass ingles stockyard that was the moment when stockyards Canada Klein
directly to the farmers livestock there and transported Waterhouse
Potter house slaughterhouse some self moving out of those cities Chicago

00:32:00

Kansas City Sioux City St Louis because of the very very high prices
urban real estate and because those plants have most of them has been built back in the 1890s
very efficient could do lunch with him because they’re on period
very expensive urban real estate Sony Packers systematically move out world areas
where they could feel different kinds of meat packing plants that were much more efficient
vision and help them sleep cough sound for consumers let’s go ahead and
take another call here and I’ll from central Illinois online one this is an a good morning

00:32:35

morning urine Focus good morning interesting program congratulations on a historic
NorCal ing account of a harder for eating another
America thank you thanks on my question is as a person
person who has cooked meat over the years in the Midwest
and have had the opportunity to eat I’m all sorts of a different color
different kinds of me I can still go downtown Chicago or St Louis
Lewis and get a beautiful cut of meat and it taste like meat last

00:33:10

last 10 years what I’ve noticed in cooking me there’s a brown
Suzy substance that comes out of meat
what what do you think that is caused from I don’t know
don’t know I wish I had an answer for you I die young
I will tell you this is what I know about how many packages have
have changed in the last 25 years as consumers become
c** more demanding and your skirt a way in which consumers demand in this country

00:33:45

people want leancor they want lean beef
they want the leanest poultry they can possibly get and the way the Packers
try to accommodate all these b**** culinary the man
is 5 reading animals for Specific Purposes it also help them reduced
reduce costs are trying to find much uniformity a Steak N Out who’s the brown stuff
stuff well if you found me like there’s probably water that you know something some how
msn full stop it I would say that the release this is my

00:34:20

is my experience any way to really big Packers it really 46 to
pistol with a quality of their meat so it could a pound on who the supplier
fire is um but I’m guessing that what you’re experiencing is us
a kind of meat from an animal that spends bread for very very specific
Pacific genetic purposes same a not be what you have in mind but personally
there’s a consumer out there who is looking for whatever characteristic is a kind of meat have
and I should also add that the same hole through for the global

00:34:55

customers that American meat packers have to satisfy they have to have
completely different kinds of meat when they sell for their Japanese consumer say have to have
Wheatley different kinds of me to sell the European consumers so I’m guessing that
were what you’re saying is coming from okay I thank you for that explanation
Chennai yes the quality of meat that I’ve seen over the years has just
does decreased considerably and for the common person
when they aren’t ever going to get to taste great

00:35:30

great steak from say restaurant in Chicago thank you very much have a good day
thank you very much for calling and I’m wondering when were talking about the quality
quality of meat for half the processing of me to others when is you that you write about tonight
Nicene in the news recently and that’s the use of antibiotics and livestock
stock I’m not just for are not just for fighting bacteria but also to
21213 growth that’s right um again when I was writing a book
when I first started I didn’t know anything about this food that we’re having a saison

00:36:05

the critique of me but as I research looking for pay more attention to me
bring me to realize I’m I’m I want to address of the fishes so I spend alot of time
time in the book explaining how antibiotics got into processing actually date
dates back to World War 2 not a sin
scientist that so everybody bare with my rather stupid what station is this
meet livestock does that it is healthiest and thrive
drive fast when it when it is able to eat with call animal protein

00:36:40

at which you can get from among other things 1250 certain kinds of protein component
certain kinds of kinds of animals me so they really fried
World War 2 broke out the two main supplies of that kind of protein
forces of cod liver oil
which was mixed with feed to provide more protein to animals
it was imported from both Norway in Japan the supplies dried up and suddenly
the animals that were coming to Market in the United States were much scrawny redhead much less

00:37:15

let’s meet at a time when a man was accelerating not just for troops broadside
what site for our allies in for civilians at home so the race was on to try to find some kind of
kind of substituion I explain the book what happened to the long story and I’m sticking to cut the chase
chase what people found was a kid get that same gross booth and
nutritional benefit this was an accidental discovery
Calvary by adding antibiotics that contain residues a v12
12 into the feed itself and the complete now

00:37:50

is that farmers only use antibiotics because animal for Captain confinement
the way to keep disease from spreading fact is a farmer started using antibiotics
before they shift is a consignment as way to help
help reduce their production cost and get animals to market to market weight fast
faster to have them in better health market weights is there would be more meat on the end
the animal cell that it was possible to be consumer demand over the years
Sears it has continued to be added in part because when animals

00:38:25

animals vices life cycle have very very high mortality rate
what’s the thing that again the creek don’t want to talk about have animals on pastor or
if you have them in confinement mortality rates will be very hot antibiotics often used for
used for a very long time to try to not just speed up growth to try to keep mortality
Cali rate down which means more meat for consumers how to lower cost
it’s quite clear the antibiotics are going to be going to be removed from the equation
thats that struggle over antibiotics actually started back in the 1970s

00:39:00

finally here we are 40 years later everybody I talk to an axis up there going away
the Food and Drug Administration announced this month putting in new policy that right
curtail the use of antibiotics that’s right I understand some critics say doesn’t go far
how far enough but yet there it is right that’s right that’s the complain about antibiotics is it by feeding
feeding antibiotics regularly small these by the way are miniscule doses
antibiotic the animal for eating you can use about a tbsp in a ton of food and I’m not exasperate
bad rating about that its not alot complaint is that when animals are fat

00:39:35

does low doses that eventually we humans are going to end up becoming
resistance various kinds of bacteria that are antibiotics will be
will be resistant to all kinds of bacteria now that the thing that doesn’t get reported in the news
who says that’s very very few of those antibiotics are used
the farm are also used for human being but that doesn’t
doesn’t really matter they are going to go away and what remains to be seen is what
is what impact will have on not just price also demand the price goes up to man

00:40:10

Samantha drop which again for the critics say you’ll remember that that for critics big ol
the goal is let’s have everybody eat less meat and someone 125 pounds in a year
here we can figure out how anybody can eat an average of 225 pounds
you’re so fresh you put in a snack machines at work to do it
could have now I’m is a farmers always
always been of one mind about antibiotics and some of them have misgivings as as as
has its you started to grow in agriculture farmers are not

00:40:45

not hear something I didn’t know it again I don’t know anything about any of the Sun
live in Iowa my life I mean a thing about agriculture at farmers
what temp to put a starter cost in Reno right at the beginning of foot when I use the word farmer don’t take it too serious
farmers are not a monolithic group Farmersburg sample have nothing
nothing in common with barley farmers in common with with hog farmers
um yes some farmers object to its only because
because they understand if they could eliminate that if there was some way to eliminate that cost

00:41:20

biotics and they’re not very expensive eliminate that cost
still get the same benefit in some way obviously that would help improve their production
cost more so yes I’m feeling up 10 farmers in quiz about
hormones are the use of antibiotics for not going to get uniform answers
answers I will I will also say this about life
livestock producers the vast majority of them really honestly try to do
try to do the best I can for the animals that they know that they are going to eventually

00:41:55

sense water there they’re not in humane jerk there really not
what they work real hard to understand their living with both life and death
um in a perfect world I would love to have little farms were they have you know if you have livestock
galavanting about in Reno Organix list b***
understand that again cated
we are having this complicated discussion about beef with Marino go she’s the author
author of trust an unexpected history of carnivore America still time for your quest

00:42:30

questions and comets at 1 800 222 94551 800
800 222 WILL were on Twitter and Facebook at Focus
is 580 the email address will dash talking Illinois dot
edu and um just looking at all the subjects
Siri to work work with talking about the of the challenges from up
people who are our of people are critical of the mainstream off
off off off off of meat production but at the same time there are alternatives out there

00:43:05

there and they seem to be a growing share even if a small share of the market
and the fact that I might be able to go with the Salem Walmart in the grocery sex
free sex in there and find that among the mix of foods to Jesup there are some changes
is that ever happened in recent years is as is farce people’s preferences absolute
solutely NNMC the last two chapters of loci fight record history of where this whole business
organic local for someone to sew forth I mean I buy does defense that cause I wanted to nowhere
where can I wanted to understand it and it say it is absolutely true

00:43:40

true that a food processors in food makers in livestock producers understanding
this is a viable new market II I just spent the last two days Missouri talking to some
do some people who are involved in the beef industry I went down to give a talk and they
they told me that and I was not surprised by this that comes to beef
only Gross actor in the market right now the only one is a very very high
behind the market of very high quality Angus beef and very high quality graphics
Cafe tandoor organic meat beef commodities plain old commodities

00:44:15

the previous color in a mansion that that that that
part of businesses in a right if its just flat sew absolutely
this is growing and again many critics argue that organic and natural is coming to
big cumming too much like big business but you know it
you don’t get to have it always keep people in this country after standing you want organic food
food euro your little local farmer is it going to be able to make enough for everybody
it’s just not going to work that way that’s why so is inorganic and organic food industry

00:44:50

great overall there been a lot of murders recently as companies get bigger and
the big companies the market opportunities by buying up there smaller competitors
talking about a lot of people hear this is a big country in a big world
world there a lot of mouse at once let’s take another call 911
is Danny from Urbana good morning urine focus morning thanks for taking my call
iPhone come from this with a kind of vested interest I suppose
how was I farm 500 acres of corn weight for 20 years

00:45:25

and sew a lot of my production went to the livestock
industry both Portland to check in for feet but I’d like to
like to push back II know that you don’t colors coming to bake the hole
nine yards but um it’s true that Mark Bittman
Batman and Holland over simplify
on the other hand I think that they’re not the only one to do in hand but I’ve heard this morning seems to over
over simplify the other direction and certainly the industry is guilty of that

00:46:00

and so I think it’s very important that people like to drive with a dick
they do in order to get people to start thinking and you know it
I can just push back on one point that is the man that one has to do
how to do the industrial consignment systems in order to meet a man
you know I know that umm back when we still have a lot of small pork producers
better now people who had me to 50 South resident 5000 south
there was a lot of push back on them because they had to contribute to the national

00:46:35

National Park Marketing Board IKEA pork industry
the street and poultry industry in the dairy industry spend alot of time trying to manufacture
the case that they are just out there scrambling is fast 6
can I meet with the public once they’re screaming is fasting
can to create a man because the fact that the convention
beat the darkest laugh and 14 point we do know what
what production without antibiotics will look like with a clock and

00:47:10

is there a swine production is going along quite well
biotics it possible to do it possible to use more humane techniques
haven’t been a single case for the industry has let environmental
metal improvement what health improvement they have big
good on every man by activists for
work health food production Martin Parmalee consciously production they fight they fight
if I did so I say Batman and pollen

00:47:45

over simplify things good for them keep pushing in the end
we will have the meat products in the need hopefully
smartest animal in Holly have now Danny thank you very much for
how much for your comments and Irene yeah I know that that’s that’s all I am I
that’s exactly what kind of thoughtful person I’m I’m I’m hoping to get into the sky
discussion III agree that what I’m saying sounds all so simple but again
is this is very complicated so I’m trying to I’m trying to reduce sound

00:48:20

what ICS as the issues that need to be in place your name Lee
this is a very complicated system and simplistic solutions aren’t going to do
do it and and both sides by the way are are guilty of
throwing out of a lot of rhetoric and dad at winning hearts and
send mine I agree that is
think it’s terrific pollen and company have crazy fish use
shoes and Ike apsolute Lee think we should have a really long

00:48:55

conversation in this country about the issues ivory 100 percent with that
that my complaint is a were having a terrible time having a conversation
in part because both sides are trying to oversimplify very very complicated
use my what I’m hoping is I can get people to stop
Ann and take it deeper look at this and understand that is not simple
simple simple message is this is complicated so I understand exactly
just say something about Denmark Marcus gets held up offense

00:49:30

how often is an example of a kind of Sanibel need to have just want to remind
remind everybody Denmark is a very very very small country thing
and the import of me because they’re using
who sings can’t apply for everybody even in their own country but yes
on a small scale in a small country is it possible to have that kind of meat production system
American steel yes it’s a great model
model Americans won with fire to that we really have to go look in the mirror

00:50:05

the one who really are driving the cement of course the Syrian Street
promote a product of course the beef industry promote a product and one reason
reason they had to do that in the last 30 years over and over again is because a consumer
silver at the casino in the street and many sort of scientific
expert have made claims about the dangers of food I remember
I remember back when eggs are suddenly like the worst thing you could possibly don’t eat eggs
how to try to protect himself so yes absolutely

00:50:40

industry try to protect himself they want you to consumer products
even without those promotional campaign Americans were still going to be
going to be out there eating hears a classic example of the last nm have to be very
very quick in the late 1970s country feel completely
pletely of a cliff because that was on healthy to eat what Americans doing sex
switch the chicken and that’s why we now you weight more chicken feet we’re going to end up eating something
well this discussion will go on words but this program is out of time

00:51:15

Marino go thank you very much for being on the show today Reno girl is the author of in me tweet
meet we trust in unexpected history of carnivore America she blogs over to her website
website Marino google.com tomorrow on focus Jeff Bhasker
monster takes my place for a program looking at the work of filmmaker Wes Anderson
an interview with an author know who’s winning the book about that filmmakers work
tomorrow on focus on WILL