Women On the Internet: Welcome, but not really welcome?

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when University of Illinois Chancellor Phyllis wise email to students to tell them that Monday
classes would go on despite subzero temperatures there was pushed back online
some of it by way of a rude Twitter hashtag which soon collected racist and
sexist remarks. Stupid college kids blowing off steam are an example of


what women in academia often endure online. I’m Jim Meadows and today
today on focus our guests will talk about incidents where men in academia target women
online journalist Amanda Hess
anthropology professor Kate Clancy, and Field Museum video blogger Emily Graslie

are program continues after the news
welcome to focus I’m Jim Meadows


Yesterday University of Illinois Urbana campus student body president
the president of many Boldin issued an apology to Chancellor Phyllis Wise
it’s not for anything he did but for hostile tweets at some students and
her after she announced class was in session on Monday despite frigid temps
temperatures old is a statement saying that the student body deeply believed in
maintaining inclusive pluralistic community of the sexes
Asian racist tweets sent with a special hashtag misrepresented those Canaan


community values a relatively small number of people center suites in many work
mini work quickly taking down but there an example of a sort of target women risk becoming
on the internet just for being women positions of leadership are in areas of
research with air considered by some to be Outsiders later on this
this additional focus on talk to to guests weather during hostile online communications
patience just because of their gender right now let’s listen to Amanda Hess
she’s a freelance journalist who recently wrote about her own experiences with


is with abuse online for the Pacific Standard and
white women arent welcome on the internet she writes about internet civility of silver
civil rights issue describe the extent to which readers of gone over the years to tell her
how much is a dislike her work in several instances she was a threat
threatened with rape and murder she told will News public affairs director
Dr Scott Cameron in this a prerecorded interview that even though she’s disappointed
by the tweets sent by somebody u of I students on Sunday night she’s not at all


surprised I think everyone who has any sort of public resin
present weather its just a social media site or
large university has more experience if they are
any martial ice candy what is there already
MyCase a woman in a case you’re the university was both we have a
have a chance this is the top rated M campus she’s a woman
Asian American online being attacked a container to Hitler I want


I want quote said that I’m not going to Pier one quote said that Asians in women
when women are responsible for their actions the putting online images very intense
personal criticism in the end of the day this is an argument about the weather
right on this is an extremely coming experience
inside my case um the sort of feedback
what I get for my stories ranges from a typical
bottom of the barrel sexist insults of sexually explicit cost


commentary commentary on the way I look up a body looks like
if you case is escalating to actually criminal threat
threat of rape and death Andy’s art
are criticisms interest to a penny in today have they don’t
um still engaged my opinion anyway
Stifel this discussion derail my work on and make it a lot more
more difficult for women people of color


sexual minority to have their opinions
B you know to start with on the level of the
the work as opposed to their identities event happens again and again
again what is the long term effect of repeated online attacks
against really any woman steps out in his suit Do It Yourself Auburn says here
Here I am doing my work I’m living my life online everybody else there must be
must be in effect in two ways in one


when is on the person attacked us like a sand in the kisser many women
women that I spoke with diesel the tax
take a lot of time for us to deal with in terms of reporting them to the police
in terms of us cycling through all of the accused to find
constructive criticism about our work which is extremely important for us to
cage with on and they started tellason ways big and small to be
we don’t really belong in the public eye


that are opinions are not relevant because of who we are
are they also have a lighter in fact I think I’m not just on the target
it’s been on anyone on in their communities who is a
is a woman or is a person of color I’m so in the cases
University days Brett stairs been a lot of
no focus on the threats against one person
public figure and focusing on house that might affect her


does not use Twitter send a message
2919 nails person in the University community
that they’re not particularly welcome their definition Point
the Chancery barely has now scene between sanded coming down them saying that
this is the neighborhood full of this is it mean to have a conversation about civil discourse what that means
means on the campus to campus is not going to look pretty disappointed
this is a free speech issue and so far is that was the only one


only responsible God directly from the Chancellor anybody else you’re the University of Arizona
the President on campus or other type of Ministers across the campus
as you talk about that kind of a message when message this send as this happens
intrusive thoughts on the decision not to discipline to say this is a free speech
free speech issue that we haven’t heard from other people at top levels on the campus in response to this
does that also send a message for lamisil for two Nitti
my case in cases many female journalist the only records


horse meat have for the messages that becomes reading is the police
Lisanne as you seen in the case of the tweets
tweets not rise to the level of the criminal threat which is probably true of the display
display cases unlike other women who are working in the public eye
why are on the Internet Eastside wrestling start taking place
can place in a community that is extraordinarily well equipped
how to deal with the issue of go beyond at the letter of the law


the lot to you look at the school code of conduct for temple all sources
what is speech is a regulated there from anything from
disrupting the community by Sheldon on campus 2
making sexually explicit comments rise to the level of her ass
and so the university has
address this issue a part of the community but awesome
application of particularly in terms of title nine to make sure that the


the community is not one that is harassing for alienating to women on
non campus disappointed that they have on the date
the siding not to use thinking about the response
spawn something so often the message in a can you have talked about this before but the message
the victim is ignoring get over it or maybe even worse in CT
attack some sort of sign of progress that hey you’re being noticed online isn’t that great
yeah I’m definitely found that to be the case of for me and I think one


20 minutes to call to know for dimple I am a writer who wrote a story about
about this topic that was extremely well read to me and say
you know that these Cummins fuel truck hold you back it anyway
women that we are not hearing from because they are
are so turned off by the Bar Method 8810 they don’t even
what is a place where they might succeed us we really don’t know
how many voices losing by Justice ep 2


fireman statis hospital to win an herb people of color when this happens
send to you when you were attacked blatantly online repeatedly
repeatedly over years how did you respond to happen the number of
number of times over the course of my career and I really had no guidance for
how exactly to respond to the testing out different possibilities
some cases if it doesn’t rise to the level of a criminal
criminal threat to someone saying I’m going to come to your house and rape you in cut off your head


what happened to just tell friends so I have a piece
peace of mind that other people know what’s going on and they can help me out
it’s an escalator in some cases right now
under their real names and it does for the price level for criminal threat report
the police even though I know to experience that it doesn’t
how to get results because I also feel that you know their art
hard to get some people want to tell them that this happened and one response


ponces you should just right of the going to come to your house and decapitate you
which statement is probably true
people say this is a really serious this person is committing a crime and you should do
do everything your power to put them in jail so I left in for the
intermediary space where on the one hand I don’t want to
overreact other I feel personally responsible for reporting
and I fear that something is happening I have to report it


why might people aint for not taking action I’m so I don’t think there’s really an ID
ideal response on but my tactic test into shorts
furtive share the defrost mince in the abuse
fused with people do I know we’ll be receptive to me talking about it
shirt with the police to get some sort of paper trail
hope for the best and it was a notice in the the Pacific Standard pizza
Pizza Jerrod you describe the first 20 Solis tres feeling terrified de Soria


thoriated and then accepted it what what came next after Sun
after start of the initial shock of seeing you know totally anonymous person
you don’t know a thing about you and your body and
going to come kill you um I felt a variety of
ideas things a mean I did feel certifit in Paris that I was scared
scared because I know I am in no way want to take away
wave from all of the of violent crimes at police


everyday and I felt powerless and apps
upset because I knew that these people found a way to
do criminal lean and get away with it basically
um and then I felt a responsibility to
you try to figure out why that is a guess I was just as journalist art of curious
curious as to why this is a crime that was a boy
power to portrayed on the Internet


Kate Hudson
my life is to not just talked about my own story
small part of it but you really get a handle on exactly why technology
companies on 1st and fishel are equipped to deal with
the problem you wrote about some one woman Faced summer eye
similar online arrestment to Caroline Chris Perez and its information sheet
she she’s an example somebody who boy blasted right back what you did with dignity


can you talk about what you would have another sushi recent Gary in
very extreme cases of online against women she is
she is a writer and activist in the UK who started the campaign to put
you put more female faces on British currency of which seems like a fair
fairly benign skin pain in response
she got no countless 200000 off
of tweets from people who were threatening to rape her throat and killed her


um just started loving extremely well commentary at her eye
and she really put a lot of pressure on both 146 and Twitter
buy a retreating alive used rides in listing for Twitter followers
words to take the issue seriously and she’s had
success on Scotland yards
arrested several people in connection to the Rights of Man and a couple of them
guilty to some charges 10 and 18


who was the woman that I know that she’s also a lot of sex
text by not just started sleeping under the rug for self and cheese
cheese how to deal with a lot of
problems with the police in reporting the threats going back to these
used 2006 messages to send them to them again and doing all this work that
add a fuse to do themselves through it hasn’t been easy
easy but it’s certainly raise a profile of the problem


the world getting better and sending a message this is not this is not okay
okay that you know what happened to the was no good guidance I’m not sure that’s a shame
change of seed as you and others Comfort Inn in describe experiences and talk about
about what would you Facebook how do you change then how do you make it more likely
more likely that as you enter system a mother be lawn forcement academia
with a tech company that there are one people who will take this seriously
seriously understand what this means in also have resources are available to people


people who are looking for support for help with what is cleaning
attack a very interesting question and you know what I should have sound
sound in my story with that there’s no easy solution for a sew in
so if if Twitter could you know Institute a simple technological affects for this
this I have faith that the day would do that on the one of the things that I
3000 with most confusing for victims is it there seems to be practically
20 communication between life force mint and technology


the company beyond this interaction where some times
if pressed 146 will subpoena a technological company
obviously a particularly in the current climate technology companies
NYS our are extremely averse to giving up any
NYS consumer data to a voicemail
perfectly understandable on the west coast
recently came out is that there is more there is the morning


engagement from Stern small law enforcement agencies
how to use with Twitter so I saw a police officers from
California which is a very small agency of many of their office
officers recently joined Twitter and work in a conversation with the most air
citizens about the story about the issue us know if we can
can forgive you know in Courage 14 slant or um you know it
in this case School Specialty


how to have a better understanding of the Internet sexually live their life
like weekends in a think that can go a long way
understanding Inuyasha mentioned in the desert
shifter seems right now or maybe potential shipping should say that there is still on first
the tech responses on food a recent push to view this is a civil rights issue
yeah um I really Leons very heavily on the work
work of a University Maryland law professor name Daniel


who has really sparked a legal to date on
which case is proposing that on my
online harassment women use as a civil rights issue
just as you know I’ll women’s educational opportunities
Andino others
breaking news have been legislated through the Civil Rights Act
um and I know it really started with not take necessarily


really huge changes to the law on their own
legal framework that frame on minecraft meant that interfere
beer with your ex economic opportunity on the basis of race national
origin or religion as a legal discrimination but they don’t
2 gender um and state
there are others for civil frameworks for um
taking comments that are currently serve only friend


does commentary telephone calls and texting them to come in
what are made over the Internet that’s a really slow process
and no lie called for the civil rights legislation
it’s going to take many years is not going to change overnight I’m thinking
increasing its impossible for the law to ignore the Internet
pretty hopeful did that happen
generalist Amanda Hess the author of white women aren’t


art welcome on the Internet appearing in Pacific Standard magazine on their website
she spoke as today with wyll news and public affairs director Scott Cameron
this is focus on wyll im Jim meadows in today were talking about
talking about the abuse women in academic positions face on the Internet
not just the hostility level the Chancellor Phyllis wise for keeping your classroom
classrooms open frigid weather on Monday but hostility women may face for just being female
female in traditional email fields of research with me in the studio is


is Katherine Clancy and she is an assistant professor of anthropology
hot at the University of Illinois blogs for Scientific American
scientific about human behavior evolutionary medicine and ladies
lady business and recently wrote about the current flights of women in academia
and on the phone from Chicago Emily graslie she produces a video blog called the
the brain scoop for Chicago’s Field Museum of Natural History to find your work
work on the brain scoop channel on YouTube cheerful feature highlighting


the science you can learn about answer Field Museum Emily says
cheese have to deal with some pretty nasty comments based on the fact that she’s a beaut
she’s a woman a pedometer emails stem science world Kate and Emily welcome to f***
focus thanks for having me thank you and I can do you work your on
on the U of I Urbana campus at war speaking from right now what was your reaction
action when you saw the news about the tweet set some students and send out about the Chancellor
um is is something that people have been discussing with you over the last couple of days


um it has what was interesting with that of the mornings at
you know we found classes worth the night before we found classes would not be cancelled parents
it’s all over champaign-urbana found out their children’s classes were cancelled Ison number of Facebook friends
look for a friends and colleagues who were under stand Ubly frustrated with this decision
general University transfer your b*** at the other kids about the work that that we do not close
clothes for almost any reason and soap you know again in particular the Parents I saw work light
what about this the Minish do that without making character attacks on Chancellor wife


why they were able to do it in a very thoughtful way that talked about the ways in which we should respect workers
and then I saw the bus be peace and busty piece of the one that I want
ensure quite Whiteley that call it a lot of these really awful racist sexist
best massages tweets torch antler why’s that created a fake of
Twitter account about her and a pretty awful hashtag
and I think it was really upset with other people who wanted to actually engage on this question of how to
how do we support workers are not support workers in these really in extreme climate conditions were unable


unable to do that in the face because they didn’t want to side with some horrible
horribly sexist and behavior in and we’re not able to actually have a real conversation
okay um I want to bring up bring listeners into this conversation
patient as well what’s your take on the state of affairs with women in academia is it
is it something about the Internet itself that affect how people behave or should I just know better
better give us your view our phone number is 1 800 22 29455
i5 you can email acid will dash time Illinois .edu the phone number again


is 1 800 222 wyll episodes
phone or email you can send your Twitter or Facebook at focus
focus 580 case you had your own story to tell in us
told on your blog scientific be official name of the blog context
text and variations and recently you wrote about an incident in which you were
invited to work on an unidentified interesting project you just called a dime
cool science things in in the blog post office


and I you were invited but in this train set of passive aggressive when can you tell me about
about that sure um I received an email from a man that I didn’t
I did not know of deceit someone who is leaving the school same thing and it was
and it was the first to secede was a prominent female scientist I didn’t know quite well and
email which is on the Block Post he said
you know this promise you’ll find us to said basically that she will not participating cool same thing and Leslie
improve like for women in school sign saying good point so inviting you


um sew in no way was this a you know we thought about the ways in which
in which your particular contribution for your personal problem is a scientist might be meaningful for our project
project um we don’t actually really you know again the substance text to me was
does we really care about women in science but we certainly care about the appearance of its own
we can slightly increase our number so we can say have we had more this year than last year
really good for us independent weather we actually care about your contribution well I’m wondering
about that and sinking you know hypocritical things like this probably going


go on more often than we care to think but people are usually
usually not so transparent about it and the Diamonds
just wondering is it is this just an isolated incident in terms of this being a pro
a person who didn’t know how to make Invitational was just so hold office
what happened to do it that easy Betty’s that he had to let you know
I think it’s probably the latter I think that he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew that it would
it would probably silence and alienate women but he also knew that you to feel the conditions of what


what he felt prominent female scientist wanted him to do I’ve been contacted by
2002 received the identical email who recognized on my blog
blogging said oh I also was asked to be a part of cosines saying and I want you to know that I decide
decided not to be in it because I was really disappointed and offended by what I received
received and so it had frankly the intended effect that few women to come up on the offer
what he was able to appear like he was making the effort the prominent female scientist would continue to be involved
it was more complicated with you because you wrote back in you


enduring Mart on the nature of the invitation but you also try to be part of the Bronx
the project and complicated heated um
can I try to explain that you know an email like that might make actually women feel left
welcome to participate in an email while pregnant
responded and said yes thanks for doing that um this man never responded
and then when I finally did um send in my submission
the very next day I was told that it was an appropriate and


and when I turned it off the New York Times seems like it better for New York Times opinion piece
and so it was really me clear to me again
again um that they wanted me but didn’t want me to the sorry not sorry
okay that’s how it ended up that you’re not part of the cool signs
no eventually I wrote back to find a throwback week
pink and um I got another sorrynotsorry kind of
kind of an email from another from a person even higher up saying well


really push for you in our policy is anyone pushes for you we let the person through we have
we have in social publish it so you’re so is this again
averi backhanded kind of a urine cluded but we just want to make it very clear do you but we
you are included come in a way that we are not really comfortable with me never really wanted
diversity hire Soto definitely how they made it feels
Roseanne understanding the contributions of the first people can make the instead of the number
number okay you of course were not quiet about this because you write about


blog so um even though you didn’t name names
everybody love everybody Rita block knows about the situation I imagine
circulated a little bit of course paticipants know who they are and some people
male figure it out who they are they know them Shore what sort of response time
came out of that mean you’re on the internet now there are comments what happened
um there were a lot of people who do and
and this is the place where I am Legend Emily can have a contribution to is there a lot of people who me


immediately questions why I was taking it series Lena mediately questions might own
tone up with Colton Police people were saying
well you know I think that this is a real genuine attempt of their to include you and I
you and I think that you’re just taking it wrong and are you really all that important prominent anyway
negative saying that you know me ti
longer anyway and I shouldn’t be bothered by these kinds of things and this is what happens when women try to get involved in
Alden science um this really come out of something that naked as as


Direct has essentially same women which is a way of saying that women tumblr
Welland if I can waiting here for send SMS to response that
set up at that I get um you know why I had a video in which kind of address
address of the negative comments that I’ve been receiving is well and um people coming to like you
can you set yourself up for this let you agreed to do this and these,
comments when when you put yourself in this position if you want people to watch videos if you want people to read your blog
black p**** just have to toughen up and deal with it something that I want


difficult I’m dealing with 2in with that in any kind of dealing with an accepted
accepting negativity you also um are expected to just
accept handouts says if they are hand out if you know somebody offers to include
could you add event in the give you a backhanded compliment and well you better just suck it up because you know they
you know they didn’t have to be so generous and I’m the kind of passive aggressiveness is what I think
pictures of lot of people from really want to participate honestly I’m really contribute
tribute unique voices you know if you’re that somebody is going to


target them or think that you’re making a big stick
think about something if they you no question well what was that person’s attention inviting
fighting me to the fender having to speak about the topic well that’s something I think
also talks about the nature of a discourse on the Internet
which is more and more is our discourse we discover we talk to each other on the
on the internet that something I want to get to after the break were the midpoint of the program
and when we come back we’ll talk more with Kay cleansing Emily graslie about women the academic


academic world and the online world and how some guys behave when all 3 come together
this is focus on wyll
welcome back to focus on Jim Meadows were talking about
about women academia the internet and what happens with these components intersect
set my guests on right now are University of Illinois anthropology professor
Kate Clancy and Emily graslie produces a video blog for the Field Museum of
Natural History in Chicago as we continue remember your comments are welcome


at 1 800 2229 4550 remail ISAT will a dash time
talk and Illinois edu wear on Twitter and Facebook at focus 580
80 the phone number again 1 800 222 wyll
Emily I wanted to the show listeners maybe show is not quite a sprite
right thing to say on radio give them a little sampling up your video blog you can find it on
on youtube I need the title the brain scoop and here’s a little clip just just awful
map of a regular edition of the show


things that are countries
country today rapid crime violent video games decoration Family Values
used for haps most importantly starting talk to differentiate properly between horn
horns and antlers generally use for defending territory fighting of predators and
Santa tracking mates I know nothing gets me going big Rockefellers
antlers no 7 horn anyway I hope it gives you hell
general idea fundal feature popular science sum of its a little


a little gross because you know dead animal specimens and things like that but it is science
that’s one way to hook a 9 year old boy inside all of us but Emily recently you posted
did really a difference edition of the brain scoop really not talking
walking about a are the signs in the exhibit in the collection at the Field Museum
but instead talking about the creepy sexist emails you have to put up with
how to get to the emails are they coming to come in on on on YouTube
um can you refreeze it im you were talking and you quote


vote in this segment of the brain scoop caldo where my ladies at about
about some of the comments you get all the things at folks email to you are are they are they
are the common sense sational up on your YouTube page there is an end
but there’s a variety of ways people can get ahold of me died I have a tumblr have a blocked Twitter
Twitter I Facebook inboxes in and you to come in so it’s kind of like a negative
all the different ways social media people can get ahold of me well let’s go ahead and
play emitted from that video where you quote some of the messages in question


question I feel like in general women don’t have enough time to do the things because of the pressure that
every episode has to be flawless an execution the term for both men and women
women but I feel like women are going to give up more easily because of Commons like this I’m still tour
totally do her we have a fear of the feedback from my subscribers in common because we’re friends
free that are audience is more focused on her appearance the quality of our content even more than that
events at the concert have to be good or factual because we’re not convinced that people are watching
watching for the content of the first place finally I saw her body ohmygod


how can a woman be hotter than Emily if you ever need a safe place to stay what you study the past
Patagonia in Argentina please feel free to get in touch with me I will sponsor your home
journey just stare at you the fear of the Opera what comes with being on screen with
because some soon must be some for personal relationship happening which me
which makes work with that person later on awkward on top of that makes me feel awkward
awkward having somebody on my show because I’m afraid there going to see those kind of Comet this is the weirdest
lesbian porn I’ve ever seen and again that’s a clip from


the addition of the brain scoop that you Emily graslie called where my ladies
ladies at you really handlin with the way but also you tell that you weren’t kidding
and those those those messages that goes with things at people really sent you
overcoming flat iron that I read and then re read kind of indisposed
disbelief how you know ahead this something that’s been happening all the time
with the brain scoop which scientist and you started before you came to the Field Museum
CM um are the something that doesn’t use it started coming in more recently


well known as an audience expand your going to exponentially get more c**
comments in within the coming to expect probably get more people who are left
focus on use an individual in and kind of um they feel like there’s a barrier
barrier between myself and them as if I comment posted that doesn’t
doesn’t directly speak to me and is instead about me I just I wont read it
rata free no I’m I’m too busy or whatever else but I have been receiving is coming
coming to soon as I had started making videos on YouTube um it was something that


things that at my first appearance on YouTube video is it in December of
2012 and I you know the reaction that I had from
from them from Hank green who who was in the video with you produce a video put it on his show
show the others and he said you know if you’re interested in doing online video do you think you can handle it
the comment as if it was something I could of had to Lake set myself up for like yeah
yeah you know it did the weirdness of having people not only talk about you and talk to you an ingrate
engrade number to talk about you but I wasn’t really prepared for the I guess


I guess for how I would feel about having so many people comment about my appearance or sayings
explicit things about me um I don’t think there’s anything I can prepare somebody for having
having to deal with that is part of the job what made you decide to a
speak up about it um mainly because I have been receiving a lot of emails from
young women who were also interested in having their own YouTube channel interested
Justin bar near me Tristan history of love to have my own channel like the brain scoop b***
but they saw that I was receiving is kind of coming to know what the word concerned with how do you do with a comment


do you ignore them to hide them do you delete them do you have somebody else Reacher coming for you in
um did the question of how are you doing with a kind of made me realize why wasn’t
wasn’t that wasn’t dealing with a kind of letting an existing there on the page
and it’s not only did the young women series coming to parents
videos to the children and I don’t want somebody to growth in the back
what kind of environment think you have to endure sexual harassment
pursuit of making it for me a funny educational videos now in in in the city


the segment I don’t know if you arrived at a conclusion are you just wanted to get those questions
distance after about your concern about love what is this so to communicate
medication a me this far is impacted the impact it has on just talking about
what size in the first place but having of the internet being a place for women to talk about
talk about science yeah I don’t know that there is a heart and true
true solution to this problem um I think it’s definitely something that is not only
creators of myself on YouTube have to address in keep in mind but also how are audience


audiences participate how we would like a audience is to dissipate and I think it’s enough
nothing to be solved overnight but um I hadn’t really seen address
the son on video in a specially not know my notification video so I’ve
I feel like I need to get the ball rolling you put a Southwest just a few weeks ago
video went up in December on December can a month ago maybe
baby app what to feed back have you gotten since then about that
I received an overwhelmingly positive reaction um I received


100 female send messages from people both men and women who are you know some
some men are apologetics their land their pod racing on behalf of their entire gender for
the way that you don’t men specially Evan reacting to my videos
Anna from women who said there inspired by it and there’s a feeling
empowered a woman who did you know so to speak at Fashion Center
is myself can also be smart in articulate and funny in WoW
um but its minutes in really encouraging and I am I thinking


Richmond that I received his vastly away the outside dissenters out there
there and I’m thinking about in the context of what the cake Clancy you were telling me with a fever
feedback you were getting a new you were talking a lot about um I am by II
hope you are receiving some support in along along the way after you wrote
Scientific American but you spoke about people who essentially 7
that’s what you have to expect on the internet what are you doing here anyway
addition of the fact that there are people who questions the end


Andy indignation you may have for the any feelings that might come up when you have
you know like I had a range of different kinds of Preston Tucker
Khmer online in terms of emails blog post a Twitter
Twitter comments and things like that and they Raintree you know the drive by a really gruesome
explicit rape threats all the way to do you know if lol
academic writing me a really long mansplaining an email about white as I’m running about something
and you know uh all of the entire range


all of that has a very chilling effect and a but I think it’s kind of sad about the
the times that were so often advised to not feed the trolls or ignore the people who are being
route to us is that it doesn’t actually give us a chance to access all the feelings vent about with happen
what’s happening to us and then have a chance to move on so what I love about Emily’s pieces that
what by Shelli showcasing some of these comments that she’s gotten um
she’s a fling bear the experience for so many women online who are harassed but um
um I think she also take some of that power back in so you know what you did was really lovely


thank you what talking on focusing wyll im Jim Meadows my guest
best Kate Clancy professor of anthropology here at the Y and Emily
Grassley who are does the brain scoop a video blog for the Field Museum
BMI of Natural History find it on youtube still time for your feedback
back at one 800 222 94551 802 2
222 wyll email acid will dash talking Illinois dot
edu take two women do you see women leaving academia


the me up because of this sort of sexism um
I mean Eminem and maybe just internet sexism would be
maybe maybe we’re really talking about something larger than just what goes on online
are there a lot of ways in which um academia can produce a hostile climate for women
for women and I do think that that um II do I have had a lot of
autos I have to buy the tissue that way and I want is for me
what is for my students and I often do you have to close the door and have


umm give student space to have a feeling by various things are happening
happening over the course of writing a dissertation or I’m having class room comforter things like that
what makes you think that they’d um sometimes the way in which we try to have debates
faith in academia because it’s kind of a masculine way that we engage
give women a chance with a fan culturally conditioned sexually active the feelings Triton
engage with you no content conversations instead of you know what
what does actually put a lot of women weighing unfortunately no number of women who


who have made it to the PhD and then not gone on Tacony Mia
um and not because they always wanted to do some other tracker because they felt pushed out
doubt people who’ve never finished Emily you’re in a different part of the Sun
the science World urine of the museum call to your job is really talk
talking about this stuff for a you know for laymen for people like me essentially
Ike Ike I can imagine that you’re 50 years ago I would be the Gift Shop
the Field Museum and I would have bought a little booklet say about faces of South America


urban color plates and then they would have been a byline by ee grassle
Grassley are some things but uh instead this is what you do now
and I’m I’m wondering do you find those to freshers in in your work
workers far is women working in Arkansas Yumina for women
find the Field Museum with women scientists are in Owen Indian your job itself
what do if it’s interesting I’m coming out the from unique respective that I have a background in
dart so when approaching somebody new familiar with my work I eat


you know I’m talking to people and an attempted to get them to summarize
Ryse their last three decades of work in an hour long interview um so I
Oria often wonder if their education to talk with me is because I don’t feel incompetent as
the scientist to discuss their work or if it is because they don’t understand
understand or appreciate the culture of web content or you know I’d like to think
my at the fact that im a woman has nothing to do with it um but in Kentucky
talking about some of these these issues in officially the lady that video I spoke


spoke with some Field Museum people members of The Women in Science Group a head of time
time just so you know I’m interested in talking about this what you thinking it was it was a nice
like a good luck with that kind of like pat on the head kind of you know you were you’re going to
you’re going to be open a can of worms that were you think you will that’s actually been open for decades in
im you can you can try to change something in the new online content
media or you know we’ll see what happens I actually from an outside
Northside professional somebody told me that if you thought that you could change anything


if you thought I’d like the way women are treated in society is going to change don’t you think women
women generations ahead of you would have done it by now and that
what kind of the statements to force me a little bit the fact that somebody could just
end of take my fire in a try to extinguish it so II feel like it is not going to
I’m going bad on if both men and women have to come to grips with the fact that things need to change and
and maybe yeah everything’s going great generations ago but that doesn’t mean we don’t have to
have the chance to change things now there are the distance to be different levels of thinking


get these things get talked about in dumb
in terms of it sounds like
like some of the people of the talking to you were talking about the problems women have faced formal
millenia as compared to the problems women face right now on the Internet
yeah and granite I don’t expect those kind of change
mange on a worldwide basis overnight but um I do think that
that the way to retrieve women online to be a really great reflections how women are treated in the workplace


women find attractive for treated um I think we have a good
good platform to to experiment with somebody thinks ok
we just got a email in die from Arthur
um I’m sorry I feel you for staying because he didn’t like you prefer to be anonymous
president that find the right Eastman hearing a lot of false equipment
woodlands um think he’s talking about other
what other not want not hear the broadcast by to the larger discussion of this hole


tall is you saying that he’s hurting other U of I senior staff were also
also the subject of online abuse that comes with the territory etc
therefore what say you have to put up with case or what you feel
you for your putting up with Emily um isn’t that special but he writes my question is
what is did the online abuse of those other U of I senior staff
text based on race which in their case would have been the European American heritage
are the dead online abuse refer to in their case male genitalia know


no answer question so it’s really not the same thing do you see
do you think some your credits are are guilty of false equivalence
I’m not sure if I understand the point Arthur’s making her um I think he is trying to defend you by saying
icing that I that that that that he’s hurt people essentially an answer answering
answering of points made by you and Emily by saying will you know I’ve had to put up
what up with with with a lot of junk on the Internet to sew the fact that your woman
woman doesn’t really mean anything sure and I think that there’s


um there’s there some ways in which I think we all experienced
a harassment you know on line and we all experience heated argument
mints and discussions in the classroom um you know what they’re very pointed
which we all get our feelings hurt the difference is not just in the volume but in the
what in the way in which its about people’s characters are there is making a point hear that there’s a difference between
craftsman a person’s color of woman receive online
in terms of the absolute volume so there a number of um black women academics


follow on Twitter who they often retweet the kinds of things that they getting I say
the amount of astounding Lee bad racist attacks with a get
um I just ordered to be on when I get a white woman um and sewer
and so I do think that there ways in which there is an absolute difference in terms of the volume and then yes it is off
what is off in about her character am I more recent those kind of amusing is well
well attacks I got with a man who informed me that he had been told by both his wife
bossy said he was the epitome of the perfect man and so was very well suited to tell


tell me how you know how dumb I was in a how much I
overreacting so I should just cool it baby and I swear word
never be told to cool it baby what I’m thinking now and we’re going into the last minute
I’m going to give it to Emily if you have something to say here um this is the end
the Internet is used to be something special to one sided people spend time
time on more and more for more and more people is how they do the regular
daily discourse and its a place where you can do discourse like this pretty easily


easily what do you think this means for the future you know im
no I’m not I’m not bitter about it I’m excited about it um I know it
think we’re open a dialogue in the fact that we had so much for to the patient honest I like Israelian
original me the video that I put up with a couple months ago and I’m I’m still talking about it
what is a really good sign and people are kind of pulling up what’s going on
going on the internet and there they are incorporated in their daily lives in the daily business in
send a part of the online part of the ongoing dialogue of of Art


no the climate of a culture so to speak um so sore
interesting thing how to spell 7 next year Rihanna okay well this is the soda discussion you
can you can wrap up of only put aside for now I don’t think we’re going to have any grants
and conclusions but I do want to thank my guests Emily graslie who are produces
deuces the brain scoop for the Field Museum in Chicago and Kate Clancy professor Asus
assistant professor of anthropology at the U of I thank you both being on the program today
along with Amanda Jesus spoke at the start of the program here on focus.

Sunday evening when University of Illinois Chancellor Phyllis Wise emailed the campus to say that classes would indeed be held despite a predicted below zero temperature with windchills reaching into the double digits, the internet became a way for students to voice their discontent. Within hours, a Twitter hashtag joking about the cold turned into a sexist and racist attack on the Chancellor herself. During this hour on Focus, Scott Cameron talks with Amanda Hess, author of the recent article “Why Aren’t Women Welcome on the Internet” about her experiences with the kind of verbal abuse directed at Chancellor Wise. Hess also talks about the University’s nonresponse to the incident.

Then, host Jim Meadows talks with Kate Clancy, an Assistant Professor of Anthropology at the University of Illinois. She blogs for the Scientific American about “human behavior, evolutionary medicine…..and ladybusiness” and recently wrote about the current plight of women in academia. She says the kinds of backhandedness that happens online translates into real life consequences. Emily Graslie, the producer and host of the Field Museum’s behind-the-scenes science vlog “The Brain Scoop,” also joins the show. Her recent post “Where My Ladies At?” questions whether more women would pursue careers in science if they were met with a different kind of judgment from men in the field.