Meshell Ndegeocello comes to Krannert to share James Baldwin’s wisdom with music

URBANA – For decades, singer-songwriter, poet, bassist, and producer Meshell Ndegeocello has blessed us with an unmistakable voice plus mesmerizing lyrics and instrumentation. And on January 28, Ndegeocello will perform at the Krannert Center for the Performing Arts presenting No More Water: The Gospel of James Baldwin. IPM’s News and Public Affairs Director Reginald Hardwick talked with Ndegeocello in the days ahead of the concert.

Reginald Hardwick: At your NPR Tiny Desk concert in 2024 you quoted James Baldwin: “You think your pain and your heartbreak are unprecedented in the history of the world, but then you read.” How do you reflect on that quote as you’re coming to Central Illinois?

Meshell Ndegeocello: I think often people flippantly say, ‘if you don’t know history, you’re doomed to repeat it.’ And I think that’s starting to fall on deaf ears. I think I was a person who really was like, ‘What do you mean?’ We need to be in the moment and constantly looking so-called forward. But I think after reading The Fire Next Time, I realized how important it was for me to read my elders, have a better understanding of history, so that the experience, that I am having now, wouldn’t be so daunting, it wouldn’t be a shock. It’s also that understanding the stories, whether it’s fiction or non-fiction of the past gives you a better understanding to the commonality and constancy of a certain type of oppression, a certain type of bigotry, a certain type of power grab that I think all of us are sort of saying, like the world is so much better. And yes, it is, but I think I look back on that saying… it was a wake-up call for me to be more engaged with my elders and with history.

RH: We know Baldwin was a legendary writer and activist, and he would have turned 100 years old in 2024.

Excerpt from James Baldwin on The Dick Cavett Show in 1969: I don’t know what most white people in this country feel, but I can only include what they feel from the state of their institutions. I don’t know if white Christians hate Negroes or not, but I know that we have a Christian church which is white and a Christian church which is Black. I know, as Malcolm X once put it, ‘the most segregated hour in American life is high noon on Sunday.’ And so it says a great deal for me about this Christian nation. It means I can’t afford to trust most white Christians, and certainly cannot trust the Christian church. I don’t know whether the labor unions and their bosses really hate me. That doesn’t matter, but I know I’m not in their unions. I don’t know if the real estate lobby is anything against Black people, but I know the real estate lobbies keep me in the ghetto. I don’t know if the Board of Education hates Black people, but I know the textbooks that give my children to read and the schools that we have to go to. Now this is the evidence. You want me to make an act of faith, risking myself, my wife, my woman, my sister, my children on some idealism, which you assure me exists in America, which I have never seen.

RH: How does your show pay homage to him (Baldwin)?

MN: Oh, I think I try to maintain clarity that these are songs inspired by his writing, and we use his writing sort of as segues to remind people of his brilliance and also his prophetic understanding about what’s happening in this country in terms of race and class and gender. I just want people to see it as a gateway, an introduction, an invitation to his work. If you want to better understand where we are as people, in this moment in time in history.

RH: What would you say to him, if you had a chance to sit down?

MN: I love you, I would just say, I love you, and thank you for all of that, the humanity that you put in your writing, all that you shared of yourself that was so deeply personal that aided me in not feeling so alone, I would just say I love you so much. I’m so grateful for your time on Earth.

RH: As a black queer man myself, I find that James Baldwin and his boldness of being so open at that time is very inspirational.

MN: Yes, and I get teary. It’s embarrassing, but imagine him and Bayard Rustin were kept from participating in the March on Washington due to limited understanding. And I think we can see now how that’s that’s a detriment. He had such a clear message, and he says, ‘love has never been a popular movement,’ but I think we really need to understand where he was coming from.

RH: We’re here at Illinois Public Media, we have our NPR station, we have our classical music station, and I’m in the studio of our Illinois Soul station, which is Black music and news. And there’s not a day that goes by that we are not playing one of your songs from your incredible, iconic Plantation Lullabies from 30 years ago. Will some of the songs on that album be included in your show in Krannert?

MN: Oh no. Actually, we play mostly of the Baldwin music, since it’s a long piece of music, and I appreciate that, but hopefully you’ll be kind enough today to play either ‘Trouble’ or ‘Love’ from the Baldwin project, so I can introduce people into where I am now and see wow, that ‘Plantation Lullabies’ was such a strong building block for me. And now, instead of being an angry young person, I’m really seeing that and praying that love unifies us. And I’m so grateful to everyone who has bought tickets and shared what they have. I’m so happy this is my livelihood. But yeah, come out with an open mind and come share some experiences with us, a loving experience with us.

RH: You won Grammy in 2024 for The Omnichord Real Book. What is it like to still be producing and being awarded for your art 30 years after your iconic album?

MN: Oh, I’m so humbled by it, so humbled that I never thought I’d get this far in terms of age and you know, my experience through time and space. But it’s just always I have such gratitude that anyone listens to what I make. So I just try to stay clear and humble. I’m just grateful.

RH: Do you have a favorite genre of music? Yours covers so many genres, and who do you listen to?

MN: That’s funny. You know, I like some days I’m listening to all soundtracks. Last week, I was really on a Aretha Franklin tangent. And then some days I’m listening to Fugazi and, you know, independent punk music, or I really love the new SALT record. I don’t know if you get a chance to listen to that. It’s some of the most beautiful soul and rhythm and blues music I’ve heard in a while. Really, really inspires me these young people spiritually. My father was in the military, so we listened to the military radio when I was growing up. So I listened to everything, and then I got to WOL [radio] in [Washington] DC, so I really got into Soul. But I’m old enough to remember when radio wasn’t so segregated, so I think that really does affect me. I like it all, you know.

RH: January 28 you’re here at Krannert. What is your pitch to folks to come?

MN: If you have the means, please come! It’s uplifting. It’s thought-provoking. We work with a singer who’s from Gary, Indiana named Justin Hicks. I think my band is one of the best bands playing music right now, not to be arrogant. And if anything, come celebrate Baldwin. He needs to be celebrated and like I said, if you have the means, or if you know someone else who would be interested, buy them a ticket. If it’s not for you, it’s that kind of concert. It’s to hopefully show you that sharing is love, and we really need that kind of love right now.