// This is a machine generated transcript. Please report any transcription errors to will-help@illinois.edu.

[00:00:00]
Brian Mackey: Today on the 21st show, for generations, gays and lesbians often found community in bars. That's changed in recent years, but political events and the corporate pullback from Pride have LGBT Americans thinking more about separate places. Not just bars, but cafes and bookstores and other places where people can build community, find safety in numbers, and just be themselves. I'm Brian Mackey. We'll talk about that today on the 21st show, which is a production of Illinois Public Media, airing on WILL in Urbana, WUIS in Springfield, WNIJ in Rockford DeKalb, WVIK in the Quad Cities, and WSIU in Carbondale.

But first, news. From Illinois Public Media, this is the 21st show. I'm Brian Mackey. For decades, gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people have found spaces to meet, connect, and find community with one another, or made their own spaces. For a long time, gay bars were one of the few public places for that. Among the most famous where that happened was the Stonewall Inn in New York City, the site of a clash between police and customers in 1969. Thomas Lanigan Schmidt and Danny Garvin frequented the bar and shared their memories in a PBS American Experience documentary back in 2011.

[00:01:46]
Speaker 1: What was so good about the Stonewall was that you could dance slow there. Because we, we could feel a sense of love for each other that we couldn't show out on the street because you couldn't show any affection out in the street.

[00:02:04]
Speaker 2: There's a chance to find love, you know. I, I had never seen anything like that. I never saw so many gay people dancing in my life. And I said to myself, oh my God, this will not last.

[00:02:18]
Brian Mackey: Much has changed since then. Support for the LGBTQ community has gone up significantly, though there are lingering questions about how much that's changing under the second Trump administration. In recent years, corporations have even taken part in Pride events, though, again, some of that support has dissipated in the current political environment. LGBT people have still been carving out their own spaces. The gay bar lives on, though it's less prominent than it's been in decades past. Other kinds of businesses by and for the community have sprung up too.

Back in June 2025, we talked about what those spaces can look like and what they mean to the communities they serve. We're revisiting that conversation today for the hour. With us for this was Jan Lancaster, owner of the Bistro in Bloomington Normal, a bar which for more than three decades has served as a sort of haven in that community and beyond. We also heard from Jessica Stevenson, who owns and operates Lit on Fire Books, which got its start in Peoria back in 2015. And Dakota Thomas Wilhelm is co-owner of Good Judy's Espresso and Bagel Bar in Urbana, which opened a storefront in 2024 after becoming a fixture at the area's farmers' markets.

Because we're on tape for the hour today, we are not taking calls live, but if you have thoughts on this or anything else on the show, you can send us an email. The address is talk@21stshow.org. All right, Dakota, I'm gonna start with you. Talk about the kind of space you're trying to cultivate with Good Judy's.

[00:03:58]
Dakota Thomas Wilhelm: Yeah, so when my partner and I moved here in 2021, we were quite surprised to find that Champaign-Urbana felt like a very queer area, um, a lot of queer individuals and things like that, but, um, we really were struggling to find a dedicated place that we could really spend time. And that's when we really started to build a sense of community with our own friends, and things like that, and without any kind of dedicated queer space in town, we started to think about what we wanted to do. And for the longest time, my partner and I had talked about opening a coffee shop. We just never really knew what that looked like, and kind of through the first Trump administration and then coming out of the pandemic, we really decided to lean into really creating a queer safe space that also was a nice local coffee spot.

[00:05:00]
Brian Mackey: Talk about the name Good Judy's. What's the significance of that?

[00:05:04]
Dakota Thomas Wilhelm: Yes, yeah, the name Good Judy's comes from Judy Garland, being an early friend, um, and at times advocate of the queer community. Obviously her role in "The Wizard of Oz" was very notable, with Dorothy [Gaye] making friends with many different queer individuals in the Land of Oz, and during a time when being out and proud wasn't really legal or acceptable, you used the coded language of "friend of Dorothy" to identify other people in the community. And as that kind of evolved and went on, and as we learned more about Judy Garland, and of course with her death happening just days before the Stonewall riots, her legacy became intertwined with the modern gay movement and things like that, and that's where the term "good Judy" started to come out. So, Judy Garland, during her time being a friend of the queer community, has now [been] codified into the language of "good Judy," really referring to your best friend, your confidant, someone who may be part of the queer community, or maybe an ally of sorts that helps support you and advocates for you. It really is just the sense of camaraderie, friendship, and safety, really.

[00:06:23]
Brian Mackey: Jessica Stevenson, I want to bring you into the conversation now. So, what changes when the space you're creating is a bookstore rather than a cafe?

[00:06:34]
Jessica Stevenson: Yeah, so it is actually a pure delight. Um, when you go into a bookstore, you have a natural sense of community. Um, the kinds of conversations that happen in this space kind of come naturally to community. And it just seems like kind of magical, not that other queer spaces aren't magical, but we're all coming together to educate ourselves, um, to grow in empathy and understanding and celebrate the arts while being ourselves.

[00:07:20]
Brian Mackey: I want to share a text message we got from someone in our texting group, which by the way, you can join by texting the word "talk" to 217-803-0730. This is from Anne in Bloomington, who says, our small city of 140,000 has a gay gathering place for decades. The Bistro is on — it's on a Main Street, I should say. It's well thought of by all and has welcomed LGBTQ folks and allies, sponsored events, held political fundraisers, and been a boon to our overall community for years. Young people have found their own places to gather, celebrate, and support each other, but the Bistro is a home for all. As I said earlier, we happen to have Jan Lancaster, the owner of the Bistro on the line with us. Uh, Jan, talk about how you think about what the Bistro brings to the community.

[00:08:17]
Jan Lancaster: Thank you. Um, I echo, um, the other, my other, uh, panel people. Um, everything you said it just comes from the heart and it's truly amazing. Um, the Bistro to me, I've always just called it home, and that has pretty much become what the community calls the Bistro, and it has, um, you know, endured almost 35 years now, and we have pretty much think we've seen it all, and of course you never see it all, but it has just become a sanctuary and a safe haven for so many people. Um, you, you would think in a town of Bloomington [Normal] where we have several universities, uh, you know, colleges, etc., um, that we would be more diverse and I was always surprised that we, you know, in younger years that we weren't as diverse as what I thought we should be. Um, but we are slowly, uh, we were slowly coming to terms with that, and I think we have shown over the years that, um, you know, the Bistro, the way — the only reason why I think it survives is that people trust me. This has been a safe haven. They can come to me for help. They realize that for me, um, I don't consider this a business to make money. All I wanna do is stay open so that we can provide and continue to educate and help wherever we can in the community.

[00:09:52]
Brian Mackey: Talk about, um, you know, how these spaces, Jan, take on sort of extra significance for people who maybe don't feel like they have anywhere else to go.

[00:10:02]
Jan Lancaster: You know, I think, you know, when we first opened several years ago, Bloomington Normal didn't have sexual orientation in the city amendments and so right away we started doing um programs and trying to work with the city to get this amendment passed and we called a meeting. In the early days people would park blocks away from the bar so they wouldn't be seen coming in. They weren't out at work, many of them, and so we called a meeting and I could not believe we had probably 3 to 400 people here and we found through this process that people's individual stories is what makes the impact on people. And we lost the first vote through Bloomington. We got it through Normal. We went back to Bloomington and instead of bringing in all the experts that you bring in that say, you know, you're born this way, you know, it's — you know, and so this was — we had people tell their actual stories and I, I thought it was incredibly brave for these people that were not out at work, were not out with their families. Many of them came and stepped up and spoke at a council meeting and then it went through the second vote, so I think people try to find community and um I, I think like coffee shops, bookstores downtown Bloomington here — I started a Pride fest several years ago and my neighbors now, most of them [put] pride flags in the, in their windows during the month of Pride in July. So, um, we've come a long way.

[00:11:54]
Brian Mackey: If you're just joining us, we're talking about the idea of LGBTQ spaces and what those look like in the 2020s. We talked about this back in June 2025 with Jan Lancaster, owner of the Bistro in Bloomington Normal, Jessica Stevenson, who owns and operates Lit on Fire Books in Peoria, and Dakota Thomas Wilhelm, co-owner of Good Judy's Espresso and Bagel Bar in Urbana. Again, we're on tape, so no calls, but let us know what you thought. 217-321-[2121] is our voicemail. 217-300-2121. Dakota, we, uh, we've talked on this show — it's kind of becoming an accepted idea out there of the third space. Someplace it's not home, it's not work, but you can still go get out of your house, connect with people. Talk about the importance of those spaces for the LGBTQ community, especially.

[00:12:49]
Dakota Thomas Wilhelm: Yeah, absolutely. So, this idea of a third space is always very interesting. Um, it's almost like a space was taken away from us during the pandemic when we were told to stay home. You suddenly brought your work to home and things like that, and I personally even realized during that time that I was really missing out on getting out and socializing, and meeting new people and things like that. And that's what we really wanted to create with Good Judy's, and this idea that you can come to a cafe, you can bring your laptop and work if you'd want. We also have a wide selection of board games, uh, you can sit down and pick up. Um, we even have a group of, um, you know, older women who come in every Sunday and just knit for hours in the corner and socialize, and it's just this idea that you're changing up your scenery, right? You're finding a third space that you can really be your authentic self in, not need to worry about judgment or what people are going to think, um, but then also just entirely relax too. Um, the space is really what you make of it.

[00:14:05]
Brian Mackey: Jessica, let me ask you about the idea of building a space for, you know, people in the LGBTQ community. 'Cause we, you know, we in the media talk about that as though it's one thing, but, you know, we're in an era where people are keenly aware of identity and multiple identities, and that can be, you know, where you fit in the LGBT spectrum or race or gender. And there is a history in the community of maybe, you know, this bar is for gay men, but not trans men or women, etc. So, so Jessica, how do you accommodate for that all in one business?

[00:14:37]
Jessica Stevenson: Yeah, so for one, we will always and forever be flying our pride flags. We will always and forever be here to let people be themselves, be themselves on the shelf, no matter if it's, uh, you know, a queer person, a trans person in any form. They are welcome and they are seen here. They are represented through the literature they see on the shelves, and also, it is a special kind of thing to have a sober space that people can go to that don't maybe feel comfortable finding community at bars, um, which, you know, we, we try to make community events, uh, that focus more on gathering together, meeting your community, uh, building mutual aid networks together if you need to, you know, organizing, uh, etc.

[00:15:41]
Brian Mackey: OK, I want to share another message we got from a listener when we originally had this conversation in June 2025. Brandy in Urbana said, when corporations were flying rainbow flags loud and proud in June and failing to do much else to advocate for the inclusion or equality of queer people, it was like a slap in the face for them to pretend to be allies, Brandy says. It felt like a money grab, a marketing scheme without even the semblance of legitimate allyship. Now that they've mostly abandoned that scheme, it's a different kind of slap. They're no longer willing to even pretend to be allies, and if they do, it's a feeble and quiet attempt in hopes of not drawing the wrong attention. Allyship is more than a marketing campaign, and it's not done in whispers. Thanks for sharing your perspective, Brandy.

After the break, we'll talk more about the corporate pullback from Pride. My guests for the hour today are Dakota Thomas Wilhelm, co-owner of Good Judy's Espresso and Bagel Bar in Urbana, Jessica Stevenson, who operates and owns Lit on Fire Books in Peoria, and Jan Lancaster, owner of the Bistro in Bloomington Normal. This is the 21st show.

It's the 21st show. I'm Brian Mackey. We're hearing about the places LGBT people in Illinois go to find community and what those places mean for people who want to find spaces to be themselves. We spoke about this in June 2025 with three business owners who offer those kinds of places, Jessica Stevenson of Peoria's Lit on Fire Books, Dakota Thomas Wilhelm of Urbana's Good Judy's Espresso and Bagel Bar, and Jan Lancaster of the Bistro in Bloomington Normal. You'll hear reference as we go on to one or two events that have already happened. We're leaving those in because they're still relevant to the broader conversation. You'll also hear a few mentions of "last year" and "this year," which, of course, in this case, refers to 2024 and 2025 when we aired this.

That said, no calls today though you will hear a few messages we got during our original live airing of this. Emails are always welcome. You can share your thoughts with our team by sending a message to talk@21stshow.org. Andrew is calling from Rockford on line one. Andrew, thank you for calling in.

[00:18:46]
Andrew: Good morning. Thank you for having me here. I wanted to just comment, so a little introduction. I'm co-chair of the Rockford Area Pride Committee. We actually put on Rockford's first Pride parade last year and I've been listening to the comments about the pullback of corporate sponsors and I can very much affirm what has happened because last year we were surprised at how much we received from corporate sponsors all the way around. This year it was night and day. We had to fight tooth and nail, had to do some convincing, and we actually lost two of our biggest sponsors. But I wanted to say that I'm very proud of the grassroots fundraising that we were able to do because we still met our fundraising goal and we're able to do a donation to our benefiting organization, the Liam Foundation.

[00:19:28]
Brian Mackey: Andrew, can I ask you, what do you hear from — you go to, you know, whatever XYZ corporation, uh, and say, hey, you sponsored us last year, can you do it again this year? What do they tell you?

[00:19:40]
Andrew: Yeah, so one of our big ones was a nonprofit that had given us money previously and they were worried about their stakeholders. They were telling us that they were worried that people would pull back on their donations to that entity because it was — it's not an LGBTQ organization, it's another nonprofit. When we went to some corporations, many of them just said we're not donating anything this year or they said it doesn't fit our strategic plan.

[00:20:07]
Brian Mackey: Do you get the sense that this is motivated by fear of, you know, repercussions from, you know, politics today?

[00:20:15]
Andrew: Yeah, I mean, I, I would say that's probably what it is. It's just, you know, the — some people say DEI, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion — they just seem to be toxic words, um, that are putting fear into people and putting fear into the potential donors.

[00:20:31]
Brian Mackey: All right, Andrew, thank you so much for calling in and sharing that. I really appreciate it. Uh, Dakota, maybe you can just — I don't know if you want to respond to some of the things that Andrew said on the line there about, you know, this sort of pullback and in corporate Pride we've seen.

[00:20:46]
Dakota Thomas Wilhelm: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as a younger out man, a young adult, um, I've kind of seen the influx, and then the rapid pullback of corporate sponsorship of Pride and involvement. I mean, I remember living abroad in 2015 when the Supreme Court handed down their ruling on gay marriage, and in that moment, everyone flipped on that Pride switch, right? Um, but then when the political environment changed so quickly, so did all these corporations, and you start to wonder, did they ever really care about the community in the beginning, right? And I think that's where it's really important that us small businesses really start to step up and partner with one another, and our local organizations to really, you know, put ourselves out there. We're here, we're queer, we're not going anywhere, and we're going to continue to be prideful, regardless of what these other big name or big box corporations might be able to say or provide because they have money. It's not always about money, it's about a sense of community. It's about camaraderie, friends, and coming together, supporting one another, and caring about one another. And that's actually something we're even doing here in Urbana. Just this coming Saturday, we are partnering with the local organization Uniting Pride to put on the first ever LGBTQ+ affirming business mixer. Sorry, it's a bit of a mouthful there, but we're trying to bring queer business owners together and allied business owners and affirming business owners to just start a group of networking, resource sharing, and really kind of put ourselves out there as we're the ones who care about you. We're creating these spaces for you, and we would love your support instead of maybe some of these bigger corporations that might be doing it for a profit margin instead.

[00:22:54]
Brian Mackey: All right, I want to share another comment from a listener. Sherry in Hayworth, uh, sent a text message that said the pullback is cowardly and disappointing. Our LGBTQ+ neighbors are important members of our community. Our local community has a [directory] of friendly businesses. Jessica, let me ask you about this. What makes a corporation showing support for the community — or even a locally owned business showing support — so different from, you know, a local business like yours owned by someone in the community, creating space for people?

[00:23:29]
Jessica Stevenson: Yeah, so that's something — hopefully you can hear me better now. Yes, thank you so much, wonderful. That's something that, you know, we call rainbow capitalism, and quite frankly it can be very frustrating as a small year-round queer-owned business who is constantly on the front lines in danger of, you know, being — you know, having people come in and cause problems, uh, because they don't agree with us existing. Um, is very, very almost offensive to see, uh, corporations swoop in and decide to say, oh well, today we're celebrating Pride, or this month we are celebrating Pride. Um, Pride should be year-round. We deserve to be supported, connected, and, uh, represented year-round, not just one month out of the year. And the pullback of corporate support in my eyes um is uh compliance in advance out of fear of reprimanding and that is cowardly. I agree with the commenter uh who texted in, it's cowardly, but I'm not surprised because we have all heard the phrase "no one is coming to save us, it's us." Uh, I've seen a huge uptick in community support. Um, just for the simple fact that people realize now places like ours are immediately in danger.

[00:24:55]
Brian Mackey: We have Paula calling from Bloomington. Paula, thank you for calling in.

[00:24:59]
Paula: Hi, thank you very much. Um, I am so heartened to hear this conversation today, and I personally wanted to thank Jan Lancaster. Um, I came to ISU as a student in 1977 and came out that year realizing I was a lesbian. Um, and I'll tell you, it's amazing the change in Bloomington Normal. And I, I think that that is because primarily of Jan Lancaster. She has — she is an unbelievable person. She is so supportive of our community. Um, my spouse and I had our wedding at her bar. Um, and, you know, I don't go to the bar much. I really don't go at all, but I support her and I am just so grateful for her and I'm so appreciative of this conversation today. Thank you so much.

[00:25:48]
Brian Mackey: All right, Paula, thank you so much for calling in. I appreciate that, Jan. Uh, I'll see if you have anything you want to say to that.

[00:25:56]
Jan Lancaster: Well, um, I'm pretty overcome. Thank you, Paula, very much. Um, yes, I, as far as you know, I was happy when uh we heard the conversation from Rockford, Illinois. We are experiencing um so many Prides now across the small areas in Illinois, which is so great. We have Rockford, we have Lincoln, we have Ottawa, Peoria is a great Pride fest, etc. These are so important for us to come together and um you know, I started uh my Pride fest um over almost 10 years ago. Um, a little over 10 years ago and you know I had been trying to get it started for many years and kept getting so much pushback. Um, finally we were able to just close off one little block and I thought maybe 3 or 400 people would come and we had, you know, a couple thousand, then last year we had over 10,000 and we take up most of the downtown around the square. Um, so it is a process, and as far as your sponsorships, yes, um, we have definitely noticed, um, some that we have relied on for many, many years that have um decided this year they're not going to do that and um but in exchange we have then picked up other sponsors that, you know, have stepped up and are great allies to us. So, you know, the thing is that we, we all need to just keep moving forward, not backwards, obviously, and stick together. And I think that, you know, to offer sober spaces is so, so very important. Um, you know, we've, we've in the last — well, we've always offered non-alcoholic, but in the last years this has really been something that we have really adjusted to and offer many, many, you know, non-alcoholic beverages, but sometimes it isn't comfortable for people to come into a bar and be around that environment. So you know, sober places are so very important and uh so I, so I really applaud my fellow panelists because you're offering such needed spaces.

[00:28:26]
Brian Mackey: Jan, maybe — and I'll ask them about this — but maybe from your perspective as somebody who's been observing this for a little bit longer, how has that changed in the community? Because there was this idea, right? It was gay bars. That was the main public idea at least about where there was congregation. Um, talk about what maybe the cost, the downside to that was.

[00:28:47]
Jan Lancaster: Well, um, if I'm understanding your question right, I — the, the demise of gay bars is what you're kind of —

[00:28:55]
Brian Mackey: I guess the demise and — and was it, was it maybe not ideal that that was the only, you know, the only places people might feel safe congregating or, you know, fueled with alcohol and that sort of thing?

[00:29:04]
Jan Lancaster: Right, right. Well, obviously, um, we want everyone to feel welcome everywhere they go. I mean that is — you know that's just a human right, that's a goal for, you know, everything. Um, and I think that a lot of the bars in the early days were, you know, there were many bars that were just lesbian bars, there were many gay bars, you know, that just — and when I opened I'm just like, come on in, you know. Um, and so I think that the one thing that has helped this bar maintain is that everyone is welcome. I'm very cautious about — you know, if someone comes in that is inappropriate, that they are immediately asked to leave, of course, but I think that's why some of the bars did not make it, is that they were not willing to make changes, um, you know, and grow, and you know, uh, it isn't, you know, always about selling booze. It is about community. It is a meeting place. Um, you know, things also changed very dramatically with social media. People used to come to the bar to meet people. They don't need to do that anymore. So I think that had a big, big part of why some of them didn't make it anymore. People just plainly weren't going out, you know, and then during COVID that really affected a lot of people and um we, you know, I contacted my staff, my you know, the people that come in my bar, you know, uh weekly and just did videos and said, hey, how are you? If you need something, you know, let me know and I'll help you. Um, that created a, you know, a lot of depression for people during that period and um so we have to watch out for each other.

[00:31:04]
Brian Mackey: Jessica, how about from your perspective? You know, talk about the significance of a gathering place that isn't centered on alcohol.

[00:31:12]
Jessica Stevenson: Oh, absolutely. So, um, I love our vibrant queer community here in Peoria, Illinois. Um, there is so much drag. Uh, we have a huge drag scene here. Um, however, unfortunately, you know, a lot of the celebrations do focus around, you know, alcohol-centered spaces or are drag-centered. So from my perspective as a lesbian, it's much nicer to have smaller gatherings where people are connecting on a more human level. Celebration is great. The existence of queer joy is at the essence of a, uh, you know, a gay bar. You know, so I wanna, I wanna recognize that and also I wanna celebrate Jan as the legend that she is. Uh, but, you know, also it is nice to build smaller community connections where people can actually um make, you know, plans to go out and go hiking together or do crafts together or something that, you know, brings us closer together. For — we all know when we have a bigger support system, uh, we — it makes it just so much easier to move through life. And unfortunately, in the queer and trans spaces, a lot of us have been, you know, a little bit left behind by family, uh, for one reason or another. And so we build our chosen families with each other. Um, and I think that's incredibly valuable, uh, just as important as the celebration that we do when we do go out to dance and you know, just be gay.

[00:32:50]
Brian Mackey: And, and Jessica, it strikes me that, you know, you mentioned chosen family. Now with the, with the, you know, legalization of same-sex marriage, a decade plus ago at this point, you do have even more multi-generational families and kids into the picture, right? How does that change, uh, the need for gathering spaces?

[00:33:11]
Jessica Stevenson: Yeah, well, it's delightful because, you know, you get to see uh these families come together and form for probably the first time, you know, in my history. I'm, I'm 41. Uh, so it, it's beautiful to see these people, you know, get married, have children. And then, you know, watch those children grow up and watch queer people parenting and doing normal everyday things that we have always been — you know, we should have always been allowed to do without any kind of pushback, uh, but we're being told now that we should not be visible, especially our trans brothers and sisters are being told that their visibility is not fair. It's not right. And, and it's — I refuse to accept that.

[00:34:02]
Brian Mackey: All right, we need to take another break on the program. If you're just joining us, we're revisiting our conversation from June 2025 on LGBTQ spaces in Illinois and what those look like in modern times. My guests for this were Jessica Stevenson of Peoria's Lit on Fire Books, Dakota Thomas Wilhelm of Urbana's Good Judy's Espresso and Bagel Bar, and Jan Lancaster of the Bistro in Bloomington Normal. We've shared a few messages from our texting group during today's show. If you wanna share your thoughts as we plan future conversations, you can consider joining. And you do that by sending the word "talk" to 217-803-0730. Again, just text the word "talk" to 217-803-0730. More to come after a short break. This is the 21st show. Stay with us.

It's the 21st show. I'm Brian Mackey. We're talking for the hour today about places LGBTQ people in Illinois go to find community. At this point in the hour, we're talking about some of the challenges they're up against in this political environment. We first aired this conversation back in June 2025. We talked with three business owners who offer these kinds of spaces, Jessica Stevenson of Peoria's Lit on Fire Books, Dakota Thomas Wilhelm of Urbana's Good Judy's Espresso and Bagel Bar, and Jan Lancaster of the Bistro in Bloomington Normal. Again, we're on tape. You'll hear our guests mention "this year," which refers to 2025. No calls today, but you can share your thoughts with us anytime. Our email address is talk@21stshow.org.

Dakota, let me ask you, what has the shift in the political environment meant for the safety of your business and the people who go there to find community?

[00:36:07]
Dakota Thomas Wilhelm: Yeah, so I definitely have to speak to uh Inauguration Day this year. It overlapped with MLK Day, and we decided to publicly um come out and say we were gonna have our rainbow bagels, that we called [gales] that day, as well as just be providing a news-free, safe place for people to gather. And I was very surprised to see how we were backed up from the counter outside the door for hours that day of people who wanted to get in, wanted to have this community to be with and celebrate with during what a lot of us felt was almost a dark time, um, and that has continued onward in a lot of other areas where we're seeing people gather in our space to meet with one another and get away from some of the happenings outside of the doors of Good Judy's, right? And that even goes as far as um some of these people coming in and starting their own conversation groups in our space, or creating um networking opportunities and things like that, and we need those safe spaces in this day and age.

[00:37:32]
Brian Mackey: Jessica, what about you from your perspective? How has this shift, uh, you know, affected — if it has — the safety of your business?

[00:37:41]
Jessica Stevenson: Uh, yes. Well, um, we have had to make some security measures to protect our community from within. Um, however, what I am here to say is that love is louder than hate always, and um I saw a huge — after the election, uh, you know, I think I spiraled like a lot of people, but after that, I saw a huge uptick in community support, uh, especially surrounding my recent, um, return after being treated for leukemia for nine months. Uh, and was just abruptly taken out of my entire life, my entire business, and right at my peak too. And so now, I have a community rallying around me, uh, doing volunteer work, helping me around the shop to get it back up to tip-top shape and operating in a way that, you know, maximizes how I can be there for my own community because apparently I've been told, uh, this is a very valuable space for our community. So —

[00:38:44]
Brian Mackey: Yeah, wow, I'm sorry you went through that. Um, do you ever encounter people like coming in looking to make trouble, that kind of thing?

[00:38:53]
Jessica Stevenson: Um, yes, unfortunately. Um, now, you know, I opened in the summer of 2015 and so I'm no stranger to this rodeo. However, uh, this term, uh, the emboldenment of hate has felt about, you know, five to 10 times more heavy. Uh, it feels a lot more in your face and a little more often. So yeah, that's the, uh, that is the reason why we have chosen to, uh, you know, put security measures in place.

[00:39:24]
Brian Mackey: Jan, maybe you can talk about how this environment now compares to what things were like in the early days of opening the Bistro.

[00:39:34]
Jan Lancaster: Well, I, I, over 30 years ago, um, as I said, we were, um, in a situation where so many people were not out, uh, at work or family, and, uh, yes, there was a lot of people that did not want this bar to be here. Uh, when I was trying to get my liquor licenses as an example, um, there was a lot, a lot of, um, feedback, um, not wanting, uh, this bar to exist, um, but we made it through that and in the early days we had, we walked people back to their cars at night. We really were very proactive in making sure people were safe. I, one of my customers, my patrons that came in, her brother happened to be a Bloomington police officer at that time, and he came to me and he, he said, um, you know, thanks for having the bar. You know, my sister's a lesbian, you know, and uh he said, I'm just gonna park my car right here on the corner at closing time and hopefully that would, that'll help deter some problems that are existing. And it really did, and for someone to reach out like that in those early days was just so mind blowing to me. Um, but that is — we did, we were very cautious. We had a lot of people that again were not happy. A lot of conversations on the street, people were afraid to walk to their cars. That has obviously improved a lot, but we are still unfortunately — you know there are still people that come in that want to cause trouble right from the beginning. They don't last long in here. Um, we have, um, got a lot of support from our local police. Um, there's been a lot of diversity training going on and so I, I think that we all have to be very cautious, but you know to me hate takes so much energy and love is easy. So I always — you know I echo um what she said about love and that that is true.

[00:42:01]
Brian Mackey: You know, Jan, I wonder what you tell younger people in the LGBTQ community who, you know, are feeling, struggling right now, maybe, and haven't had as much experience with some of the darker times that people have been through in the past.

[00:42:16]
Jan Lancaster: Well, the one thing that I want to always do is educate, you know. I was very surprised when I was talking to a young person in here one day that knew nothing about Stonewall, and I was totally shocked by it. So one of the things that we want to do is always remember the history. And um we started an event — um, we've been doing events like this for 30 years, but this kind of hit home here recently — we started an event called [Genderium] and um it was basically aimed at our trans community. Um, and the first time we did this event, I was shocked at how many people came over. I had a friend came all the way from Michigan to come to this event. We had people from Chicago all over coming to this event, and we had kids in here, trans kids that came up in tears and told me, I've never been in a location where there's more than one like myself. And if that doesn't hit home to you, I don't know what does. We, we have to, um — the, the young people are our future. We have to keep educating and letting them know that we are moving forward, that they are loved, they do have a space, and I, during the, you know, the election with Trump, we — you know, a lot of people were very scared, you know, they, they said should we get our names changed now? We're gonna get our — we're gonna change my name and I said yes, change it. Get married if you were going to. Um, so yes, you know, education — that's the main thing.

[00:44:03]
Brian Mackey: Wanna share another uh message, uh, if it doesn't make Jan blush, uh, from a friend of the show, Terry in Melbourne, Florida, who emailed: I lived in Bloomington Normal for a long time. As I listened to Jan Lancaster, one can just feel the love. She's a treasure to her community and to all those who want to see love spread all about. I don't even need to ask if she has been rewarded with the receipt of much love. I wanna — yeah. I wanna thank you for that, Terry, and thanks, Jan.

I wanna share one more text message. Uh, this one is from Brody in Champaign, uh, and it kind of gets back to that idea of the corporate support we were talking about and community support. Says, corporate support was always as thin as the paper it was printed on. The only support that's ever mattered is the support of people. Sometimes those people own local businesses and extend their good values to their businesses, but the truth is that it is impossible to feel safe even in a supportive business without some threshold of everyday people who are willing to stand up for them when the need comes. In other words, my trans friends feel comparatively safe in Champaign-Urbana, not because the businesses are supportive, but because they know I and so many of my neighbors will defend them when they are threatened.

Dakota, I wonder if you can talk about that. To what extent do you see your larger community, Champaign-Urbana, offering that support outside your business?

[00:45:29]
Dakota Thomas Wilhelm: Yeah, absolutely. I have to say one of my favorite things about Champaign-Urbana is that they actually wait to have their Pride festival and Pride parades and stuff until the students are back in town later this year. So we actually celebrate Pride fest here in Champaign-Urbana — we're celebrating, I think, at the end of October this year — one, to have as much support as we can, but two, to make sure we're visible and present for all the students who come from out of town as well, and giving them a safe space. And I think that really speaks to this idea that Pride is also not just one month, right? And Pride is not just an out business, or not just an out politician. It's a lot more than that. It is this sense of community, the people who are going to go to bat for you, the people who are going to stand behind you when trouble comes your way and things like that. And um I think we try to also fill our business with those people as well. We try to be more than just a business. We participate a lot in community events when we get the opportunity. And even my partner and I, outside of being business owners, we go and participate as community members when we can in different events, um, and things like that to show our support. We think it's very important to be present for the community, not just as business owners, but as community members, as friends, as chosen family.

[00:47:01]
Brian Mackey: Uh, Jessica, let me — let me come to you and uh we're coming to the end of our time together, I guess — what big picture, what makes the work of maintaining a place like Lit on Fire worth it to you?

[00:47:13]
Jan Lancaster: Uh, that would —

[00:47:14]
Jessica Stevenson: — be the, uh, queer joy and the gender euphoria that I get to see on a daily basis. Um, building community, uh, on a more personal level, uh, to me is so valuable, um, because I literally get to watch my community grow up and glow up, I should say, because, you know, uh, it just matters, you know. We, we support each other and we defend each other and we protect each other and that's a beautiful thing.

[00:47:46]
Brian Mackey: Jan, what about you? What makes it worth it every day?

[00:47:50]
Jan Lancaster: Well, I'll tell you, I'm 73 years old, um, and I think I should be retired by now, but somehow I just can never um walk away. Um, this place has, um, uh, I'm — it has just grown into such a part of myself and the supportive community, family, your chosen family. Um, so I think that, you know, we as businesses we need to come together and support each other. We have always — as bars across central Illinois we always support each other and what they're doing — and of course Prairie Pride Coalition here in um Bloomington, um, was started here at the bar 30 years ago and it's just a wonderful resource, um, to our, to our city as well as surrounding cities. So, um, I thank, uh, thank you for letting us um discuss this today. It was great, and thanks to my fellow panelists.

[00:48:56]
Brian Mackey: Well, thank you for being with us, Jan Lancaster of the Bistro in Bloomington Normal, Jessica Stevenson of Peoria's Lit on Fire Books, and Dakota Thomas Wilhelm of Urbana's Good Judy's Espresso and Bagel Bar. Jessica, Dakota, and Jan, thanks again for being with us today on the 21st show.

[00:49:14]
Jan Lancaster: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:49:17]
Brian Mackey: Again, we originally spoke with Jan, Dakota, and Jessica back in June 2025. That's it for us today. If you want to listen to more of our past conversations, you can find all those at our website, 21stshow.org. You can also find every way to contact us there, from our email to our voicemail line to our texting group, which we heard from throughout the show today. You'll also find links to subscribe to our podcasts. Again, it's all at 21stshow.org. The 21st show is produced by Christine Hatfield and Jose [Zaeda]. Our digital producer is Colson Kahn. Technical direction and engineering comes from Jason Croft and Steve Mork. Reginald Hardwick is our news director. Thanks to the band Public Access for our theme music. The 21st show is a production of Illinois Public Media. I'm Brian Mackey. Thanks for listening. We'll talk with you again tomorrow.