Episode 79: Visiting with Taylor Freeman of Columbia, MO and her story, “A Woman’s Worth.”

                                    SSPP ep. 79 TAYLOR FREEMAN

Taylor Freeman appeared in the inaugural production of "That's What She Said" in Columbia, MO in 2023. She discusses with our hosts how she discovered that "A Woman's Worth" is more than she was raised to believe. 


ANNOUNCER 00:00 Raising women's voices. One story at a time.
Welcome to The She Said Project Podcast.

[Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]

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JENETTE JURCZYK  00:26  Hi, Kerry Rossow
 
KERRY ROSSOW  00:27  Hi, Jenette Jurczyk
 
JENETTE  00:29  Thank you so much for being here today. It's time for one more really awesome episode of The She Said Project Podcast. When you started this movement 10 years ago, did you ever imagine that it would be in three or four states and over ten cities by now?
 
KERRY  00:46  No, no, honestly, it was meant to be... I just about said a "one night stand,"  oops, it was supposed to just be a one night performance. And so even though it's a surprise that it has spread like this, I think that it's the thing that women have been doing since the dawn of time, we just gave it a microphone and a show title. But women are telling stories since the dawn of time, all over women have been supporting each other.
 
JENETTE  01:09  I love that you say that. But yet I meet women all the time, when they're asked to be in a That's What She Said performance, there is this moment of 'wait, I get to talk about me?'  'I get to tell a story?' ' I get to talk about me on a stage in front of people?' So you're right about the microphone and the title and the platform but there's also that safety net, that safe space for women to to take up space and to be heard and to be seen and that has not always been so popular.
 
KERRY  01:37  Well, sometimes what women have to say isn't welcomed by everyone. But there will always be that person that stands up in the back and claps wildly and like 'yes, that's what she said!' Always, that's always gonna happen. It just depends on, you know, throughout history, there are times when those things are welcome. And the whole place stands up. And then there are times when you say it, and one person in the back stands up. So it's women being brave.
 
JENETTE  02:02  It is women being brave. And we got to meet a new group of women being brave on stage in the community of Columbia, Missouri this past year. And I'm so excited to welcome to the podcast, one of the cast members of that inaugural show, Taylor Freeman. is on the line with us today. Hi, Taylor.
 
KERRY  02:19  Taylor!
 
TAYLOR FREEMAN  02:20
Hello. Hi. Thanks for having me.

JENETTE  02:22  Yeah, I'm jumping up and down to my seat right now. I, I got to be in the audience that night. I made the trip to support Alliei Teagarden, our producer in COMO, as they call themselves there at the COMO and was just blown away by this, this cast of women who really, I mean,, they they got the concept -- they stepped in, they owned it. And Taylor, tell us about your experience and the women that you got to share the stage with that night.
 
TAYLOR  02:50  It was crazy to even be in the cast among some of the women that I was in the cast with. I think I was one of the early signer on-ers, you know, and so it wasn't really sure what the rest of the cast was. But I remember hearing, oh, the mayor is participating. Because, yeah, it was it was just like what, of course, I want to do something that the mayor is doing. This is crazy, you know,  among other women as well. I mean, it was just wild to even be  considered amongst that group of people in the first place. And now I get to call these women my friends, which is wild as well.
 
JENETTE  03:24  That is an amazing part of the experience, Once you go through a That's What She Said journey. Yes, they become your friends, titles don't matter. These are just women in your community and you now have this experience that you've shared together. That just wipes away all of that pretense. You know, we're just real women. And I think that's the point you were making earlier, Kerry, when women share stories, it connects us as people it can connects us as humans
 
KERRY  03:50  In the town that we live in, our mayor was also in a show and one of her castmates said, you know, in the beginning, it was sort of what you're describing. She said, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna be in it with the mayor. And she said, now I see her and I'm like, It's Deb. Yeah.
 
TAYLOR  04:03  Yeah. Yeah. Whenever I see the mayor of Columbia out and about I give her a hug. Which is fun.
 
JENETTE  04:09 Barbara! (Buffaloe)
 
TAYLOR  04:10  Yeah.
 
JENETTE  04:11  You didn't just have one. You had two.
 
TAYLOR  04:13  Yeah, I can't be too obvious with my political affiliation because I am a newscaster, so I have to remain neutral. But I do go out of my way to give her a hug.
 
JENETTE  04:22  I love that. Tell us about your life as a newscaster in COMO 
 
TAYLOR  04:25  So I've been doing the news here since about mid 2021. And I'm a news anchor at the NBC affiliate station KOMU 8. My shows I do the noon shows Monday through Friday and I also do the 5pm Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, so I do eight shows a week I also produce and I do reporting on top of that on other things as well. So it's a busy job but really enjoyable and fun. I don't know I never I never thought that I would really wind up in in this career but my life I've done kind of multiple things that added up to it. And it kind of made sense. It translated like I did stand up comedy, and like the performance element of that really actually helped on camera. And I did my undergraduate degree is in film and media production. So I have that background as well. It all kind of ended up and I just kind of wound up here. And I enjoy it
 
JENETTE  05:22  Sounds like it made perfect sense. In fact, I wanted to share that with our listeners, because you do talk about how visible you are in your career and your community. And there's a huge tie in to the theme of your story. So I'd love to take this moment to pause and let's share that performance that you created and you share it on stage so that our listeners can join in and we'll dig a little deeper. All right, so this is Taylor Freeman onstage in the inaugural. That's What She Said in Columbia, Missouri. 2023. And her story, A Woman's Worth. 

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(Originally performed live at the Missouri Theatre, Columbia MO, April 15, 2023 and reprised at The Power of Storytelling Women’s Conference at The Virginia Theatre, Champaign, IL, October 9. 2023.)

TAYLOR FREEMAN  05:54  I have a question: What does it mean to be feminine?
 
05:58 And I've always challenged that question. I think back on when I was a young girl, and I was considered a tomboy, which we all know, it's just the gateway drug to full blown lesbianism. Obviously, I liked skateboarding, and I like T shirts. I didn't like playing with Barbies, or wearing dresses. And luckily, my parents had a sense for who I was early on.
 
06:21  I was a sharp contrast to my hyper girly boy obsessed older sister who would tease me and call me her little brother just to upset me and be mean. My parents were fairly progressive for the time for their generation, that is, but still held certain beliefs that were dated.
 
06:43  And unfortunately, those beliefs still made it to me and my sister. Things like Firefighting is a man's job. That was one that my dad would say, he would repeat it often, I stored that away, internalizing that I could never be a firefighter because my dad knows he must be right. He's a firefighter. And a saying that my mom would say from time to time was that 'a man's worth is in his hands but a woman's worth is in her face.'
 
07:14  So I internalized that. And I let it inform how I viewed myself that no matter what, I just needed to have a beautiful face. That is how my value will be judged by others. That is how you are a proper woman, as if women are just decoration to look at. So these statements and others like it were festering in my mind, unknowingly informing how I treated myself. I was constantly seeking validation, through approval of others and needing to feel like everyone desired me. That way. I could confirm to myself some worth that I didn't just feel internally. My confidence was fake. It was fragile. And I was angry a lot of the time and didn't know why.
 
08:04  So fast forward to January of 2015. I'm dating a girl with a large dog named Louie. And one night. We were enjoying some late night Taco Bell on her bed. As college kids do. We don't finish at all so we just kind of crumpled up the leftovers and thrown back in the bag and we leave her room. She jumps in the shower, I brush my teeth, and I tell her Hey, I'm gonna go lay down. See you back in bed in a minute. So I walked back down the hallway to her bedroom. And as soon as I hit the doorway, her dog Louie is growling at me.
 
08:44  So I freeze, realizing that while we were out of the room, he had gotten into that bag of Taco Bell that we had left behind. So I start speaking to him in that like really high pitched voice, like trying to calm him down. He was still growling. So I take some slow steps into the room to let him smell me. I think I've been around for a few months, so I figured that he just needs to remember who I am. So he comes up to my left leg and he stops growling and he starts sniffing me. So I think that it's all good and he's chilled out. So I decided to bend over and pick up a wrapper that was right on the ground in front of me. And as I'm bent over, he suddenly lunges at the side of my face, way too fast for me to react.
 
09:35  So he gets his jaws fully around the left side of my face, slicing my cheek wide open and taking a small chunk of my ear with it.
 
09:47  The ride to the emergency room that came right after that I was weeping -- not from the physical pain, which did hurt, but I kept saying, 'My face is ruined. My face is ruined.'
 
09:47  But just because I no longer have boobs, I don't conform to gender norms, and I have a scarred face. And I dress differently than how women are supposed to. It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman. I'm just doing what makes me happy and comfortable in my own skin. And it's not lost on me the irony that I now have a career where my face is central to my job. But the difference is that I now know that I offer a whole lot more than just my face. ###
 
09:49 I was dealing with the sudden thought that I was now damaged goods, I'm ugly, I'm worthless. The physical pain was nothing compared to the torment of what I was already telling myself in my head. But when we experience something like this -- a life altering event, I believe it's ultimately an invitation. It's an invitation to look inward. Because if a scar on my face could damage my ego so deeply, then I clearly didn't value anything that was actually valuable about myself. I started to ask if I even liked myself.
 
10:36 So then a year’s long healing process began, going to therapy, looking in the mirror every day, learning and accepting a different face through the stages of healing. And in time, I redefined how I assess my value, questioning anything and everything of what I believed about myself. And I believe that true forgiveness. And acceptance is being able to say thank you for an experience. And ironically, I suppose I'm now thankful for the scar on my face and how it opened the door for me to really know myself. And some might argue that I'm not feminine, or rather, I don't perform femininity to their standards. Because there are many people out there in the world here in the Midwest in Missouri, where I currently live, where they get really upset just by looking at me. And well, by the way, in the gay community, I am 100 footer. And what 100 footer is means you can tell I'm gay from 100 feet away.
 
11:37  So I, you know, people perceive me how they perceive me. But some people call the news station that I work at a television news anchor they call the station, and they send emails just to say that they don't like me, because they can't tell if I'm a man or a woman when they call. That's literally the only critique that I get. But I know that these hateful comments aren't really about me, it's just a reflection of them.
 
12:07  Back to my original question, what does it mean to be feminine? And the last few years, I started really exploring my gender identity. I got top surgery two years ago, where I had my breasts removed, and my chest resculpted to look more flat, like a male chest. But ladies, let me tell you the freedom of not wearing a bra. It's pretty great, highly recommend.
 
12:46  But just because I no longer have boobs, I don't conform to gender norms, and I have a scarred face. And I dress differently than how women are supposed to. It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman. I'm just doing what makes me happy and comfortable in my own skin. And it's not lost on me the irony that I now have a career where my face is central to my job. But the difference is that I now know that I offer a whole lot more than just my face.

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KERRY  13:05  Wow. I mean, there's just a lot to unpack there. You know, I felt like there were so many things where I was, you know, nodding so hard, my head about fell off my shoulders. And then other times, you know, I, I feared what was coming and like sort of on the edge of my seat. And that was a roller coaster.
 
JENETTE  13:19  Absolutely.
 
TAYLOR  13:20  Yeah, it's kind of wild to remember that moment, the moment of like the dog attack. It was such a fast moment in my life. But it's one of those moments where you describe like a before and after event. Even today, as I'm putting on my makeup to go on air, I'm putting makeup on over the scar, which is still very much on my face, I feel very neutral about it now, like I am thankful for it. But like I don't feel upset over it, I don't have any, I just feel very neutral. And it took a lot of work to get to that point. And I, you know, can't be mad that now I make money off this very thing that I thought was damaged and broken and not worth anything which is ridiculous.
 
JENETTE  14:00  That's the incredible outcome of your journey. And that's why I'm so proud and excited that you shared that story. Because it could have gone a different way. And there are many people who would not have had that resolution to own everything that happened and use it to their advantage and their benefit. There's something about that phrase that you shared, you know, "A man's worth is in his hands and a woman's worth is in her (ed.) face." And how many generations did that infiltrate and dictate how we treated young girls growing up, right?
 
TAYLOR  14:30  Oh, yeah. I mean, even with my parents being the more progressive of their generation, really, that still reached me and it reaches people still to this day. And I hope that my talk kind of inspires people to have a thought experiment in a way that if something were to change their looks or their appearance or their physicality, like could they ride through it and come out a better person or would they crumble under it, you know, and maybe that's an uncomfortable question. Ask because, oh, I don't want to change anything about my appearance because I don't want to be quote unquote, ugly. I don't want to whatever, you know, I think it's really important to question that and how you would genuinely feel about those things.
 
KERRY  15:13  Well, and I, for me, I kept thinking a lot about... I have four children, two boys and two girls. And I've, it's always been intriguing to me that if you'd asked me before I had kids, I would have said like, no way would that be a struggle for me? And then that language was when I was raising them. It really was a struggle to be mindful of, Am I saying, Oh, you look so pretty. And yeah. And then what are the comments that I say to my boys and being really aware of that language? Because it does shape thought and those perceptions and how they see themselves and how, what am I perpetuating?
 
JENETTE  15:48  What was some of the feedback that you got after sharing your story? Was that something that a lot of people in your world already knew about that happened to you? Or were there some people who, who just learned about it that night?
 
TAYLOR  16:00  I think that the people close to me obviously know that story. And only the people within my, I guess, inner circle really knew the depth of the story. But a lot of people will even once I tell them that I have this scar on my face, they'll kind of look and go, Oh, I I just thought that was like a smile line. So you know, a lot of people were kind of shocked by my story.
 
16:26  I know, this is kind of funny, and the pessimistic assumption, when I was reached out to for the show, I kind of had the thought in my head, like, oh, like, oh, they just want some gay chick, you know. [Kerry laughs] I was like, I need to be the the, you know, the token gay in the show. But like, my story isn't even really, I mean, of course, it's part of who I am. And I talked about how I find myself, I wasn't going to tell some coming out story itself, that felt too generic to me. And this felt more of more true to like me and discovering myself to tell a story about ego and like appearance and overcoming those things.
 
JENETTE  17:03   Right
 
TAYLOR  17:04  I guess framed within my queerness. But but still, you know
 
JENETTE  17:07  Right, but that journey is indifferent from whether you're gay, straight, it doesn't matter that experience and having to face the mirror, I guess, you know, it's something we can all relate to. I love that you brought that up, though. Because, you know, Kerry and I, we're very intentional about representation. But, but we're not putting anyone on a pedestal to you. You don't have one story. Being gay isn't your story.
 
TAYLOR  17:31  Oh, for sure. Yeah...
 
JENETTE  17:31  And we're like,
 
KERRY  17:33  Well, and when we ask, you know, straight girls, we're not like, and I'd like to hear about when you first knew you were straight.
 
JENETTE  17:38  Yes, exactly. Yeah,
 
KERRY  17:39  it's it's representation.

TAYLOR  17:41  Right
 
KERRY 17:41  One of my favorite stories is another She Said Sister, when we asked her, she said, I know you're checking that box, you know, gay, and she's like, I don't talk about being gay. And I'm not funny. And then she totally talked about being gay. And she was very funny. So it's like, you know, that's, that's your call. It's just representation. You tell…
 
TAYLOR  17:58 Totally
 
KERRY  17:59  Whatever your story is. I love that.
 
TAYLOR  18:00  Totally
 
JENETTE  18:02  I do love that you shared, you know, how you look at the world in a unique way. And you are so comfortable in your skin. I think that is something to be proud of. And I think that is something to... that women don't even know. Like, I know, so many women who are not comfortable in their skin and don't even know what the next step is. And you really took ownership of your body. And I applaud you for that.
 
TAYLOR  18:24  Thank you. Yeah, I think that self love is like the best love I've ever felt. And I just want to continue down that path. You know, people that hate on me, or people that have something to say about me or my body or who I am, It's just funny to me at this point, because I don't know I can't be hurt. I'm just so okay with myself. I feel like Teflon, I guess.
 
JENETTE  18:46  Hey now, you offered the fantasy of never wearing a bra again. I mean that that haunts me…
 
TAYLOR  18:53  Cool. Sorry!
 
JENETTE  18:55  I still dream about that!
 
TAYLOR  18:57  Yeah, no, let me tell you post top surgery. I've never worn a bra since I gave all my bras to my friends because they can't go to waste. But it was very cathartic to get rid of them and salute them goodbye. [laughs]
 
JENETTE  19:10  Taylor, you are living your best life and you're living it so visibly and out loud and in a very public way with your career. And I know that wasn't necessarily your choice. It sounds like you fell into that. But I think there's a reason for it. You know, you are, you are there to be an inspiration, whether that was your plan or not, but to you know, to really show people that you can just be you and be comfortable, and not be so reliant on the myth that we have to be prettier, you know, that our values and our faiths, like your story really, really resonated with me, and I'm really excited to share it with more listeners today.
 
TAYLOR  19:47  Thanks. Yeah, I think that maybe it's a little ironic me saying these things as someone who does rely on looks, but at the same time, yeah. And just bring those things into question because even if those messages reached me as like, like, look at me, I'm not your typical feminine woman. But yet, I still was so drawn in by a lot of those things. It affects everyone, not just the feminine girls, not just, you know, the traditionally pretty, you know, women. So it's a, I feel like it's a dangerous thing a lot in our society in a way, you know. And we got to break that down a little bit.
 
KERRY  20:23  Well, and I love that redefining ... that you're on TV and other young girls and women are seeing that redefining of what is beautiful
 
TAYLOR  20:31  Totally. And I think my presence on television here in mid Missouri, might be more valuable in this moment. And I mean, I would love to move back to California, where I'm from, and, you know, live in my hometown or live by the beach again. But right now, I am going to be here because I honestly think that my presence on television is actually more valuable here in the moment.
 
JENETTE  20:58  I love that you can have way more impact in the community that you're in. When did you move to COMO and where were you in California?
 
TAYLOR  21:05  I grew up in Ventura, California, which is like just south of Santa Barbara, if you're familiar.
 
JENETTE  21:12  Mm-hmm. I am.
 
TAYLOR  21:12  It's about an hour-ish north of Los Angeles. But I moved to Kansas City in 2019, late 2019 and then applied to grad school at Mizzou, and got in 20... for 2020. So I've been in Columbia since about 2020.
 
JENETTE  21:29  I lived in California for 10 years. I loved it so much. I'm always fascinated when I meet people who left California to come to a Midwest state. And I'm always like, Why? Why?
 
JENETTE  21:40  I want to know the reason
 
TAYLOR  21:40  Yeah, yeah...
 
TAYLOR  21:42  That relationship. I was trying to be a team player. She didn't like living in California. She was from Kansas City. So I was like, yeah, so then I kind of just got left here in a way but hey, it's a good thing.
 
JENETTE  21:54  Everything happens for a reason. Right?
 
KERRY  21:56  Impacting lives! Doggone it.
 
TAYLOR  21:57  With a new career. Yeah. Yeah, but hey, I really have a desire to move back eventually in time, because I think I want to live on a boat. I think that that is where I'm headed.
 
KERRY  22:11  What?
 
TAYLOR  22:12  Yeah, like buy like a nice small boat but has like a bed, you know, in the, in the underbelly?
 
JENETTE  22:19  Uh huh
 
TAYLOR  22:19  On the boat’. Yeah, heck yeah. And then just, you know, cruise around, and like, swim around.
 
KERRY  22:25  Well, you are full of surprises. I did not see that coming.
 
TAYLOR  22:29  Hey, I would love to have you ladies on my boat one day.
 
KERRY  22:31  Oh, it's a done deal. Done.
 
TAYLOR  22:33  Yes. Yes.
 
JENETTE  22:34  We'll take you up on that. That is awesome. Well, it's been a pleasure to get to know you through you know your time with That's What She Said in COMO for our friends who don't know, we held our very first women's conference under the She Said umbrella this past October. We called it The Power of Storytelling. And we did something very unique to celebrate our 10 years of That's What She Said and welcomed one woman from each performance that was hosted in 2023. And Taylor actually made the journey to Champaign to perform her story on a new stage in Champaign again, for a new audience. And so we actually got the privilege of meeting her in person and, and getting to know them and your girlfriend who is stunning and wonderful. And it was just it just it just made it so much sweeter. And so, you know, when we were booking for the podcast, we're like, yes, yes, obviously, we want to talk to Taylor. And your story is so profound, I think it will resonate with girls everywhere, who are getting mixed messages, who are getting messaging that they have to be a certain way or look a certain way. And I love being able to provide an opportunity for them to think differently. It's, you know, there isn't one mold, you get to be you whatever that means to you go for it.
 
TAYLOR  23:47  100%. Definitely.
 
JENETTE  23:48  So I think we'll follow Taylor for a while and you know, when you're on your boat, we'll check in and
 
TAYLOR  23:53  Yes! Please do!
 
JENETTE  23:56  Maybe there'll be another podcast episode I don't know. I don't know, but I'm so grateful to have you in the she said circle now in the sisterhood and we were excited to see what happens in COMO as the movement continues so Taylor thanks for your time today. Kerry, it's been another awesome day in the studio. I love this. I love getting to chat with these incredible women and learn I learn from everyone I learned from Taylor and I'm from every woman we get to chat with so
 
KERRY  24:21  And then we got an invite to go boating with her so
 
JENETTE  24:23  I know, I think I'm gonna go start packing so
 
KERRY  24:26  Alright Taylor Thank you.
 
TAYLOR  24:28  Thank you so much. I am honored to be a part of this She Said family
 
JENETTE  24:31  Yay and thank you to all our listeners who are also part of our family today and forever here on The She Said Project Podcast
 
KERRY ROSSOW  24:38
Over and out.
  
 

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[Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]

ANNOUNCER 24:43 Thank you for listening to The She Said Project Podcast in partnership with Illinois Public Media. All materials contained in the podcast for the exclusive property of The She Said Project and That’s What She Said, LLC. For more information on our live shows go to [url=https://shesaidproject.com]https://shesaidproject.com[/url]
 
This podcast was made possible with support from Carle and Health Alliance and presented by Sterling Wealth Management, empowering women to live their best lives.


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JENETTE  25:29  Sweet
 
KERRY  25:30 Thank you Taylor.
 
JENETTE  25:30  Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for that. Awesome.
 
TAYLOR  25:33  Yes. Thank you so much.