Episode 80: Visiting with Susan Toalson McGinty of Champaign-Urbana, IL and her story, “Growing Up Poland.”

                                    SSPP ep. 79 TAYLOR FREEMAN

In our final episode of season eight, Jenette and Kerry visit with Susan Toalson McGinty and chat about how "Growing Up Poland" was an unexpected, but significant era in Susan's youth. 


ANNOUNCER 00:00 Raising women's voices. One story at a time.
Welcome to The She Said Project Podcast.

[Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]

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JENETTE JURCZYK  00:07
It is all about women supporting women at That's What She Said. And now on The She Said Project Podcast, this is Jenette Jurczyk, your host, National Director of The She Said Project. How's everybody doing out there?
 
KERRY ROSSOW  00:40  I don't know how everybody else is doing but this is Kerry Rossow, Co-Founder, Co-Host, and I'm doing pretty great.
 
JENETTE  00:46  Always good to see you Kerry in the podcast studio where we get to chat with amazing women who have appeared on stage in a production of That's What She Said, which you had something to do with. 10 years ago, you and some friends came up with this idea. What was the original inspiration for That's What She Said?
 
KERRY  01:03  The original original, you know, we were all working in what we called the 'moffice,' the mom office. And about 52 times a day someone would say something and then because we're all so mature, somebody would inevitably blurt out "That's What She Said" and so then, of course, when we started brainstorming ideas of ways to work together, and what would we call it? And what would this show be? It just had to be that -- it was just sort of our daily anthem. So then it became a play on words. It was like a joke. But it was also like reclaiming the power of words that women say and reclaiming, if anybody would use that phrase in a negative way for women, we were going to beat you to the punch and use it in a positive and empowering way (and often immature and funny way) but you know, in that light, then it just has snowballed from there. But it was totally meant to be a one night show. And now here we are all these years later. And one of the things that I love is I think back every year, I think of that first show and how it happened and women saying yes, it just started with a few women that wanted to do this thing. And the people in the community who reached out and said, How can I help? Literally a woman pulled up in her minivan in front of our house and handed me a check and was like "I stay at home. I feel so seen. Like I don't know what you guys are doing. You guys are up to something, but I want to help" and handed us a check. And our guest today she's just that person in the community who is always like, "I don't know what y'all up to. But I'm here to help." That's what's so amazing about the women in our town.
 
JENETTE  02:24  Yes, absolutely agreed. And when we were putting together the cast for our 10 year anniversary show in 2023, we get this awesome opportunity to look at our community and go what voices haven't we shared yet? What stories haven't we told yet and which women are those women who show up to support other women. And Susan Toalson McGinty is absolutely one of those women. And it was such an honor to have her on stage with us this past year. Susan, welcome back to the She Said sisterhood. And thank you for joining us today on the podcast.
 
SUSAN TOALSON McGINTY  02:53  Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to be here. I'm getting all the feels. I'm like totally getting goosebumps because I just love hanging out with you two in particular and to be able to come back and relive that awesome experience. I'm here for it. You know,
 
JENETTE  03:07 If anyone who's ever been part of this experience has quote/unquote “drunk the Kool Aid” for lack of a better expression, I mean, from the moment you were on board, you are a huge supporter, you show up, you support the other women who have gone through this process, you just, you just keep pouring love right back into That's What She Said and we are so grateful for that.
 
SUSAN  03:31  Oh, thank you. It's a joy, I don't even think of it. It's just, I think my heart and my enthusiasm goes to the set, I know are creating impact and providing value. And I just think having this stage and just going through the experience, you know, from the beginning to the end, versus being in the audience enjoying the show, I get to see that you guys are doing that and allowing us to play really big, have a lot of freedom, take some risks, but also with this beautiful safety net, because you guys ensure that we're going to show up in our very best way and you have us protected and there's all this lovely grace, so I just probably drank even more Kool-Aid than just being a raving fan. After being a She (Said) sister.
 
KERRY  04:21  Well, I suspect that this is who you are in every area of your life. You are that pourer inner. You know, every time I see you [Susan laughing] you are you just you know and I think at some point you must just crash and sleep for days because you are such a giver and somebody who spends so much time building everyone else up and we all feel like a million bucks around you. But you know, they're like I sorry, I'm getting sappy like I see you I see like that must be like, I assume you know you're getting your cup filled too and I don't mean that in a dirty way. [Jenette laughs]
 
SUSAN  04:58  And in a dirty way!
 
KERRY  05:00  Yeah, hopefully, best to you, God bless you. [laughing] I hope you're getting all the things filled. Sorry. Jenette's like falling out of her chair.
 
SUSAN  05:10  No, I love it. And that's like, you know, that could be the R-version of She Said, and that would be fun too, we can have that conversation.
 
JENETTE  05:17  You know, there are rumblings... Well, there have been jokes about, about another podcast called She Said After Dark, we'll save that for another conversation. But you know, there there are, I mean, there are conversations women need to have. Women need friends that you can talk to about all the things. And that is, that is how That's What She Said was born it is to create that safe space for women to talk about difficult things, unfamiliar things, explore, like, there have been so many a-ha moments on our stage where women took the time to reflect and dig deep and remember, and things have come out for women that they forgot about, that they still had to deal with. And there's been a lot of healing. And there's been a lot of support that's come out of this. And I'm going to echo what Kerry said about Susan needing her rest because she is such a giver, I'm going to give her some huge kudos right here. She knows how to take care of herself. When we were having evening rehearsals, she would say I have to stop at this hour. This is when I am no longer giving my best. And she knew her boundaries. And when she needed to stop the evening and go home and rest she did. And I don't relate to that. I don't know how and I don't know how that works. But I have to respect that.
 
SUSAN  06:31  Thank you. I shine like the sun. So like right now the sun is starting to dwindle, and in about an hour, I'm gonna be useless. So I think that's exactly right. And that's been kind of a journey. And even being able to know, hey, I don't have the energy for this or being able to say no, is a new gift for me. I think at my heart, I love to make people happy. And I'd love to say yes. And that's easy for me. But I also realize that when you're saying yes to one thing, you're saying no to something else. And I've been really on this journey of just being a little bit more intentional about where I give my energy, because I have found myself a little defeated. To your point, Kerry. And you know, I have no one to blame as a grown ass woman that you allow yourself to get depleted. So that's -- thank you for recognizing that. That even cringes me a little bit because I'm like, I'm like I've been she just sucked it up. And I'm like, Nope, it's cool. It's you know, that's when I kind of hit a wall, you hit a wall, time to go.
 
JENETTE 07:30  That is cool. And we did uncover some of that side of your personality, and where it comes from in your story,
 
SUSAN  07:38  For sure.
 
JENETTE   07:39  So you shared a very unique experience that you got to live as a child. And then on the other side of that story, you shared some big revelations about your relationship with your mother, and how it did feed into your personality and who you are today. So that is a perfect timing for us to take a moment, we're going to share the recording of your performance on stage so that our listeners can join in and we can unpack it a little bit afterwards. So here on the podcast, I hope our friends are ready for another amazing story. Please enjoy this performance by Susan Toalson McGinty on stage and That's What She Said in our flagship community of Champaign Urbana in 2023. With her story, Growing up Poland. 

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SUSAN TOALSON McGINTY  08:21  When I was growing up, my house smelled like Schnitzel, Goulash, Feijoada and Pine-Sol. I'm a first generation American my parents are Eastern European and met in São Paulo, Brazil, were four out of the six of us were born. My little sister Tina and I are the token Americans of the family. We were born in Chicago Heights. And then any given moment, we had multiple languages shouted across the house, broken English swear words in Portuguese, Russian and German. The mix of dialects became the Kempa family language. It was a raucous household in Homewood, Illinois, but it was OURS and I loved it. One day quite abruptly, for some reason, our family could no longer live in America. That was when my parents brought me and my two siblings to what was then communist Poland in 1974. I remember the night we left O'Hare. My Tia and Tios and my cousins were with us at the gates sending us off.
 
09:53  I remember getting on the plane and being enamored by the flight attendants. They were so stylish and glamorous. They brought me cookies. I wanted to be just like them. Once we arrived at the Warsaw airport, we entered a large, dimly lit room with a catwalk above us. On the catwalk were Polish soldiers, all armed with what looked to be massive guns. I looked at my mom, I pointed at the soldier. She's my hand. She said, Susana, don't you look at them. And that's when I knew we weren't in Homewood anymore. After a car ride, we arrived in the village we would be living in, Sokołów Podlaski, and then to our new home, which stood behind large stone gate, and our groundskeeper. Yep. We had a groundskeeper, opened them up, we drove to this enormous house. Let me tell you, we not only had a groundskeeper. We had a maid, a chef, and a nanny. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, my dad moved us to Poland and got us super rich!
 
11:13  Tina and I went to a local Polish elementary school. And I remember we had to take off our street shoes and put on soft soled school shoes. My teacher wanted the students to brush their teeth was salt water every day, after the first time my sister and I made a stand: We were never going to do that again and we didn't! That was nasty.
 
11:39  To say we stood out was an understatement. I learned the language pretty quickly. My dad used to say in one week, I was fluent in Polish. I don't know about that. But I do know I made lots of girlfriends. But Anya and Brodinna were my neighbors and my very best friends. They would come on over to our mansion and have Coca-Cola with us. You know what? Those girls had never had soda before. And we had a constant stream of Coke. While we were in school, my Mom hung out with the help. Together they drink coffee, smoked cigarettes -- are helpers became her close friends. And you know what? I don't think those ladies had ever smoked cigs till my mom came along.
 
12:30  Every weekend when the staff had their days off, our family went to Warsaw and always stayed at the very fancy Forum Hotel. After a few weekends, I was so comfortable in my hotel home, I used to run freely throughout like I owned the place. It was marvelous. I got to order chocolate sundaes by room service anytime I wanted. I felt like a legit Polish princess. Meanwhile, my dad was responsible for building a new factory nearby.
 
13:06  My dad had a big heart, was quick with a joke, and he knew how to make things happen. He learned that the local Catholic Church was still damaged from World War II and once learning this he organized a construction crew and he fixed the steeple. This single act made my father and my family beloved and very well known.
 
13:34  After a few months, my best friend Brodinna asked me kind of an odd question. She wanted to know if I felt lucky being in Poland. I kind of had to know why she was asking such an unusual question. And she said, well, in America, the cowboys and indians are fighting and she couldn't figure out how our family fit in. Clearly we weren't indians, and she didn't peg my dad as a cowboy. She even thought all we ate back home was beans and weenies. I let her know that the John Wayne movies that she had been watching weren't today's reality.
 
13:48  You know, we kids were quite pranksters, we had a lot of adventures very little supervision. One night, my dad invited his secretary Helen over for dinner. She'd come over before and she was American like us. We also knew that Helen wore a wig. For days before Helen came over,  my brother Claudio kept plodding that my sister Tina or I should pull off her wig during dinner. So when that night comes, Helen is seated next to Tina. I'm seated next to Claudio. My mom's on one side. My dad's on the other side. Claudio kept looking at Tina. Sure enough, she got up. She went right behind Helen. She pulled that wig right up, off she went. Helen got up screaming. Claudia's laughing and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, we're in so much trouble. I look at my mom. She's falling off the damn chair she's laughing so hard. Our family is so inappropriate. My dad comes back into the room. Looks at the scene goes to my mom “Genja!”
 
15:45  Helen swore she would never come back to our house.
 
15:49  True to her word. I've never seen that woman's face again. [laughter]
 
15:55  All right, so it's clear. I had a little bit of Moxie back then.
 
16:00  My dad was a local hero. We were rich. My mom made friends with many of the locals. We were living our very best lives. So one afternoon, Anya and I went riding our bikes in city center, a city as big as Champaign. We had just come to a roundabout and saw the lights of a police car intending to pull us over. The policeman was really kind, right going on and on about how unsafe it was for two kids to be out here alone. You know, legit, I just didn't care. So here's what I did. I told him I didn't understand polish. I said, “nits resumis Popolska!”. The policeman started laughing. I was like, okay, whatever.
 
16:41  So when I got home, my dad laughed while lecturing me. Susanna, if you're going to tell the police officer you don't understand polish, don't say it in perfect polish. I mean, I was six years old. [laughing]
 
17:02  Why? No one has ever asked. Nor have I volunteered. Why? Why did my parents take their young family to Poland? Why could we no longer be in America.
 
17:17  Six months before going to Poland, my beautiful and oldest sister Janet and her husband Dean left our house after having a day dinner on a cold January night. On their way home to Rolling Meadows while driving on the Tri-State. They had a tire blowout hit immediate going very fast. And both were killed instantly.
 
17:42  My mother was devastated. So was I. My mom wanted to leave America because she was so heartbroken. And everywhere she looked, she was reminded of the sadness. I truly believe now that my dad sought the Work Opportunity in Poland because he would have the resources to provide his children and give my mom space to heal. And although I made my mom sound like a diva, okay, maybe she was a little. She was truly a woman destroyed and the tragic loss of her oldest daughter. And she clearly needed help raising the rest of us. I wish I could say that when we left Poland, she came back to the States and she was healed. She wasn't, and continued to struggle with depression throughout her life.
 
18:37  Looking back, I was embarrassed and ashamed of my mom's unpredictable moods. I thought I was being judged because of her behavior. I was angry that once we came back to the States, my dad took another job away from home. But this time he left Tina and I alone with a woman that was ill. I spent the rest of my childhood trying to make my mom happy. Sometimes I could. But often I couldn't. I felt responsible for her anger and sadness. And at times, I have to say I've done the same.
 
    

19:16 Relationships. Work. Motherhood. I could live from a place of guilt and shame and fear with a tendency to overachieve. All in the spirit of people pleasing. It's taken me years of people pleasing, and while making others happy is generally a good thing. going too far and for the wrong reasons left me emotionally depleted, anxious and stressed. Guys, I love seeing people happy. It really is who I am. But now I've learned to set boundaries and realize my job is to make my own self happy. And we're all responsible for our own on happiness, I don't have a lot of memories of my childhood. But man do I have vivid ones at that time in Poland, my family and I were able to be spirited, have freedom to breathe. I look back now and clearly see that this period was my golden hour of my childhood.
 
20:20 And you know what? Let's face it, the diva apple does not fall far from the diva tree. 

[applause] 

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JENETTE  20:32  So now you get it. Now you see how you experienced it through the naive eyes of a child, but man oh, man, did we spend some time reflecting on the lessons learned and the relationships and the parts of your story that still affect you today, Susan.
 
SUSAN  20:52  For sure. It's funny, I remember being a little girl. And I don't mean this in a Oh, poor me. But just as an acknowledgement. My mom and I are very different people. I think I get a lot of my personality traits from my dad. And I remember being a little girl because I always said happy go lucky kid. And she would look at me and just say, Why are you so happy all the time? And at the time I just even remember thinking like, Oh, should I be ashamed of being happy? But in reflection, I realized I think she was literally trying to figure it out. How can this child just be happy at just being alive? And you know, just being with her friends and just being happy? I think I'm just fortunate that I inherited a lot of that for my dad, but it was probably the crux of our challenge. Because that was not her nature, that then there were some amazing things about her. We lived in Poland, this communist country, we got to have all of our goods, our food, I mean we had some luxuries that people in 1973 in Poland did not. And we live on this house and that had grounds. We had groundskeepers. I mean, I look back and I think, you know, like I said, my story. Oh, my gosh, we're rich. In Real Life. We always like to be rich. So there was one evening, there's a huge scuttle because somebody had broken into our basement. And they were rummaging around. And one of our groundskeeper. I don't know where my dad was, but he wasn't there. And the groundskeeper found this little boy, he's probably like 12 or 13 years old. And he was in our basement, you know, probably trying to steal something. And the groundskeeper was so angry and was just about to go take him home and really give him the whatwhat. And God knows what could happen to this poor kid. And my mom in such a beautiful moment of empathy says to him, she said to the groundskeeper, let go of him and, and she just looked at him and said, "What are you doing? What do you want?" and this little boy had heard that we had Coca Cola, and he'd never had soda. And he just wanted to try a bottle of Coca Cola. And my mom's say, Here, have some Coca Cola. And if you ever want any more, just knock on the front door, and I'd be happy to give you all the Coca Cola that you and your friends want.
 
JENETTE  23:11  Wow.
 
KERRY  23:12  That's an amazing story,
 
SUSAN  23:13 Incredibly generous and very empathetic, and very much like, oh, my gosh, I realize how blessed we are. What can we do to kind of get that lesson back?
 
JENETTE  23:23  Right? So your personality comes from both your father and your mother, and sometimes in those unexpected ways, right? And I think one of the takeaways from your story was how much you worked as a child, like you said, to try to make your mother happy, after the tragedy that she experienced that your whole family experienced. And to this day, you've discovered that it has colored your your choices, you have some people pleasing tendencies, and this was an opportunity for you to go hmm, is that serving you? Or are you still trying to make someone else happy for the wrong reasons?
 
SUSAN  24:05  100%. And you know what that part of writing, and my joke was I wrote this story on Peloton. And then after 20 minutes, something would happen. And then all of these, like downloads would happen. And then I'd hit my voice memos, and I would just start talking about things and 2023 became this tremendous source of healing for me, in a way that I was able to make those connectivities now, darn it, Jenette, you're doing it again, because girl, I did not think of myself as, you know, in my generosity, that I could totally see doing that today. Right? God forbid this. You know, if I was in the same circumstance, I'd like to think that I would have shown up the same way that my mom did with such love and compassion and generosity for this little boy, who was really just being a little boy and trying to try something that he had heard about and heard about the family having. So I mean, I take that in a big compliment. So thank you for that.
 
JENETTE  25:09  That is who you are, you are this warm, giving person. I've seen you with your grandchildren, I've seen you with kids in the community, like you derive joy from bringing others joy, period.
 
SUSAN  25:22  I do. I do, I believe we all have something special, I believe we all have a talent or gift. I believe that all of us were raised in these beautiful households that were able to lift up. And even if you were, sometimes you just have your demons. So I'm really sensitive to people, because I truly believe at our core, we are more alike, and we are more good than we are not. And you know, one of the things it takes me a minute, I mean, you know, I'll sometimes kind of go out on the ledge for anybody, and you have to burn me before I'm not going to give you grace or generosity moving forward. I'm not mad about that. Actually, I'm glad that I show up that way with people. Because I really think especially now things can be really heavy. It's hard out there, I just try to give people the benefit of the doubt. And to check my judgment, which you know, I'm in judgment as well. And just try to lead with grace. And by doing so it just has worked out well. And it's made my life quite happy and fulfilled.
 
JENETTE  26:33  Yeah. And I just say it is your strength, not your weakness.
 
SUSAN   26:36  Oh, I love that.

JENETTE  26:37  Yeah. Yeah.

SUSAN  26:37  You know, the other thing about Poland that I think really shaped who I am, is recognizing no matter where you live, and how different the cultures are, because Lord knows that experience. And polling was very different than living in Homewood, Illinois. But realizing that this little girl, the little friends that I befriended being six, seven years old, and playing with our dolls are running around and chasing each other and doing all the things that little children do anywhere, transcends borders. And I really believe that at our core, as different as we may look for our lives may be at our core, I think we're so similar. You know, parents want what's best for their children. That doesn't matter if you're in America, or Poland, or anywhere in the world that are having strife right now. And I think that's that part of that experience I'm so grateful for, because I think it really imparted that in me at a very early age.
 
JENETTE  27:39  There is no doubt that exposing children to other cultures and other children's lifestyles can open their minds to seeing how other cultures live and how their children live. And it does create that very organic sense of empathy, which is exactly what we try to create on stage in That's What She Said, when you take a moment to view the world from someone else's perspective, it does it makes the world a lot smaller, it makes us all feel less alone, wouldn't you say, Kerry?
 
KERRY  28:08  I agree. I think that all of that is connected. And I love knowing that ... not just that you're out in Champaign-Urbana and making this impact. But I just love it. I think everywhere you go, I'm just so happy you're on the planet spreading your Big Susan Love.
 
SUSAN  28:25  Oh, Big Susan Love. I love that.
 
KERRY  28:27  I'm just… I'm so grateful for the times I get to be in your ray of sunshine. Thank you.
 
SUSAN  28:32  Oh my gosh, Kerry, I feel the same way about you. And Jenette, I feel like you guys impart such a gift of yourselves to just helping the rest of us just realize these things that sometimes we just take for granted. And you two do such a beautiful job of helping us with a mirror and helping with those insights. I'll tell you, with She Said I learned a lot of things practically. But I think I ended up getting more therapy going through any of my years of therapy I've ever had. So thank you so much for what you guys are doing.
 
JENETTE  29:07  You're welcome. And thank you for saying that because that is that is the gift I think of giving women permission to be this type of vulnerable and this type of proud to, you know, to share their stories. And so that's what we do on stage and That's What She Said and that is what we continue to do here on the podcast by welcoming our guests like Susan who shared a personal story and then we can all sit back and learn from it and we can learn how to make the world a better place for all of our daughters. So thank you Susan for joining us today. Thank you to our listeners for stopping in and visiting with us and thank you to our partners in crime, Illinois Public Media and our amazing sponsors Sterling Wealth Management Carle and Health Alliance --we could not do the show without you. We love doing this. We love chatting with women and bringing a little Susan Love everywhere we go.
 
KERRY  29:55  I love the Big Susan Love
 
JENETTE  29:57  Big Susan Love. Catch you next time on The She Said Project Podcast
 
KERRY  30:01  Over and out!

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ANNOUNCER 30:06 Thank you for listening to The She Said Project Podcast in partnership with Illinois Public Media. All materials contained in the podcast for the exclusive property of The She Said Project and That’s What She Said, LLC. For more information on our live shows go to [url=https://shesaidproject.com]https://shesaidproject.com[/url]
 
This podcast was made possible with support from Carle and Health Alliance and presented by Sterling Wealth Management, empowering women to live their best lives.


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JENETTE  30:53  Susan, that was fabulous.
 
SUSAN  30:54  Oh my gosh!
 
KERRY  30:54  You are a piece of pie!
 
JENETTE  30:55  You are delicious.