Episode 87: Visiting with Myra Levine of Indianapolis and her story, “That Sounds Nice”

                                    SSPP ep. 87 MYRA LEVINE

Author Myra Levine of the inaugural That's What She Said Indianapols cast visits with Jenette and Kerry to diiscuss the story she shared on stage and her unique, long, winding, non-traditional path to parenthood.

ANNOUNCER  00:00  Raising women's voices one story at a time. Welcome to The She Said Project Podcast.
 [Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]

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JENETTE JURCZYK  00:26  It always feels like a party. Don't you think, Kerry?
 
KERRY ROSSOW  00:28  It really does, just because we're in this sprint sprint sprint. And then when we sit down and put these headphones on, I'm like, 'Hey, girl. Hey,'
 
JENETTE  00:33  You're so right. We're both working women, busy women. Mom's doing all the things. And this is an opportunity for us to pause and do one of our favorite things:
 
KERRY  00:43  Listen to women tell their stories.
 
JENETTE  00:44  Talk to some really incredible women that we've gotten to meet along the journey. And today's guest is one of those incredible women. As That's What She Said grew, we had the awesome opportunity to work in new markets with new producers and in 2023 we launched That's What She Said in Indianapolis. Can you believe it?
 
KERRY  01:02  Yes. As a Hoosier, we would say…
 
JENETTE  01:04 Yes you are!
 
KERRY  01:05  …in Indy, but whatever.
 
JENETTE  01:07 Just Indy. Okay. I'm learning the ropes. But you are a Hoosier girl?
 
KERRY  01:12 Yeah, so this show is extra special to me. Some of my sorority sisters were there. Some of my real sisters were there. I had..
 
JENETTE  01:19  One of your sorority sisters in the show.

KERRY  01:20   Was in the show.
 
JENETTE  01:21  So fun.
 
KERRY  01:23  It was really special. And so I was really going into it thinking about all the old acquaintances that I would see and thinking about that and thinking about the person I knew in the show. And then about seven seconds in I was like, Oh my gosh, I mean, I loved every single person in that cast. They were fabulous. I was so happy and proud. And like, Go Indiana girls go.
 
 
JENETTE  01:45  That's right. So the show was produced by Katie Vigil. I got the honor of directing the women who said yes to this journey. Katie is from Urbana, Illinois, where That's What She Said began 11 years ago now. And when she moved to the Indy area, she said, I have a thing. I know this thing that we need to bring to the women of Indianapolis. And so she went through the process of building a show. It was you know, two years in the making. And then there was the night and when our guest today stood on that stage and shared her story. She has such charm, such humor, such a way about her. I am of course, speaking of none other than Myra Levine, who is here on the line with us today. Hi, Myra.
 
MYRA LEVINE  02:29  Hi, thank you for having me.
 
JENETTE  02:31  Thank you for being you. Because I gotta say, getting to know you during the process of That's What She Said was an absolute joy. I have been so grateful to know you and to hear all of your incredible stories. Because you are a storyteller. You are an author.
 
MYRA  02:47  I am. I mostly write novels. But I'm also working on a memoir right now.
 
JENETTE  02:50  Oh! There's a memoir coming.
 
MYRA  02:52  There is. I am Jewish, raised in a Catholic suburb of Chicago, and there's like a million stories, a lot of it's humor, because that's just the way I see it when I look back on it. Gives you something to write about.
 
JENETTE  03:06  So I'm hearing That's What She Said 2.0 and 3.0 and 4.0. And all the chapters. So we'll have to have you back when the book comes out, because I want to hear all about it.
 
MYRA  03:15  Oh, I'd love that.
 
JENETTE  03:15  Let's talk about that for a second about the story that you did choose to share with the audience on stage in That's What She Said. It was your unique journey to motherhood.
 
MYRA  03:28  Yep, I did everything backwards.

KERRY  03:29  "That's nice.”
 
MYRA  03:30  "That sounds nice." Yeah, I was raised by two, I guess you'd say Kennedy Liberals, Kennedy Democrats, and they... no, I would love to have ever asked my mother. What did you really think when I told you what I was doing? Because they were so chill about it. And I used to try to get a rise out of her sometimes do something I shouldn't do? See, she would get mad at me. And you'd be Oh, that's interesting. I came home with a story about it. That's when I didn't care. Yeah, it was in Urbana story because I went to school at U of I. Well, I won't go into great detail. It isn't bombs, some drugs, but and we can go into that a whole nother time. But when I told my dad about it, he said, Do you ever do that again? Bring some home I'd like to try it. Oh my god, can you people stop already. Can I get a rise out of anybody and the answer was no. Your
 
JENETTE  04:34  Your parents were so forgiving and kind and loving that it only inspired you to go out and create more shenanigans to see what you could get away with.
 
MYRA  04:42  I think I was blessed with two brothers who got in way more trouble and I was the good student and I did everything you were supposed to do: get good grades and all that. So I was allowed and I was in my 20s By this time so not 12 or 13.
 
KERRY  04:56  Well, I think we better this is gonna this is gonna age me But we're gonna go to the tape so that everybody can catch up, and then we can chat about it. It was just fantastic.
 
JENETTE  05:06  Right. We're gonna give way too much away if we keep talking. So let's share with our listeners your performance from that show. This was the very first show in Indianapolis, September 2023. Myra Levine and her story, "That Sounds Nice." Please enjoy. 

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(recorded September 8, 2023 at The Booth Tarkington Theatre, Carmel, IN)
 
MYRA LEVINE  05:22  I was 10 years old, when I realized there were only two kinds of girls, girls who are good in gym, and girls who were good in school. So I was I was in fifth grade. And we just come back from gym. And I don't have any memory of what we did. But I can promise you, it didn't go well for me. And I was sitting back in my classroom, feeling bad and feeling sorry for myself. And then I had the little epiphany too. There are two kinds of girls, girls who are good in gym.
 
06:01  And I should explain, it was the late 60s. And I watched a lot of television. So girls who are good in gym, they're thin, they're pretty, they're probably blonde, and boys pay a lot of attention to them. So they are going to grow up and get married and have families. Now, I wasn't good at gym. But there's that other kind of girl. The girls who are good in school. And they don't have to be thin are pretty. And they're probably not blonde, but they are smart. And they could go to college and have fabulous careers and make a ton of money. Like, yeah, I could do that. So I literally made up my mind that day, you are going to be a girl who is good in school. Except for math, I already got pretty good grades. But I thought no, you have to get really good grades, you are going to have a great career and make a ton of money. And that will make up for all the rest of it.
 
07:06  And at 10 years old, it actually did become a self fulfilling prophecy. Fast forward to when I was 30. I was still single, I had no prospects. But I did own a video production company. And I had a nice office and I had staff and I had a ton of very expensive equipment and a nice roster of political clients and corporate clients. And a lot of money ran through that business. Almost enough money to run it. I didn't know how to run a business and most months, I could not take enough money out to pay my own bills.
 
07:51  Now by my mid 30s. I was really sick of it. I really was I was sick in my business. I was sick of my 18 hour days. I was sick of coming home to an empty house. And maybe there wouldn't be all the utilities turned on. And I was also sick of dating. I'd be honest. In Lafayette, Indiana at that time, let's just say that the pool of professional eligible bachelors was a little thin. But you know, when you met another professional woman, you'd find you had a lot in common because you dated all the same guys. I'm not kidding. You say you dated him. I dated him. You dated him too. Yeah, well, okay.
 
08:41  So, around 35 or so. I had another flash of insight. I finally realized what I really needed what I needed to be happy and fulfilled. I needed a baby. Yeah, that's what I need a baby perfect. I have no money. I don't know what I'm doing. I gotta have a baby. But how do you pull that off when you don't even want to date anybody? Well, I opened up the Lafayette Journal and Courier one morning, and there's a story about a sperm bank that's going to open up in West Lafayette. And it got better. They named my family doctor as the guy who was going to do the checkups on the men to make sure they were healthy. I know.
 
09:36  So I called his office and he got on the phone with me. And I explained why I was calling and he said well, slow down. I'm doing the checkups on the men but the insemination has to be done by a gynecologist. Okay, that's fine. Well, but then he said, You know, I have an idea. Here's what we're gonna do. When you register with the sperm bank, they're going to give you a list. No names, just code numbers. But you're going to come over to the office here. And I'm going to have another list for you. And there's going to be a couple stars by a couple of the codes, and you're gonna want to pick one of those. I thought, Whoa, insider trading at the sperm bank, right? I mean, it doesn't get any better than that does it?
 
10:38  So, it was around Halloween, and I went home to visit my parents up near Chicago. And I told them my plan that I'm going to become a single mother through artificial insemination. And my mother said, Oh, that sounds nice. So I went home, I made an appointment with a gynecologist, and he had to go talk to him first, they said and then scheduled the insemination. So I'm waiting in the waiting room. And I'm waiting and somebody taps me on the shoulder. I'm like, what? It's a nurse, and she beckons me this way. And we go over behind a potted plant. I'm not kidding, a potted plant. And I know what you're wondering, Myra, do good things happen behind a potted plant at the gynecologist's office? No, no, they do not. And sure enough, she said to me, I just looked to see why you were here. And I wanted to tell you Doc's gonna say no. Like, no. One's gonna say no. And she's, yeah, he's a Christian, and he will not inseminate single women.
 
11:58  Well, when I calmed down, I thought, you know, I don't really have the right to ask a person with firm moral beliefs to do away with those beliefs. For me, I don't have that right. And I also realized I wasn't prepared to spend the next 20 plus years trying to convince people that I hadn't just gotten knocked up. So I talked to friends, you know, what other options were there?
 
12:27  And somebody said, you know, there's a family, there's a couple in Lafayette, who adopted two little girls from Haiti, you should meet them. So I got kind of an introduction. And they invited me to come to dinner and meet the girls who are adorable. And they told me how easy it was too dark from Haiti, you could practically come back on the airplane with a baby in your carry on bag. It was so simple. And I thought, wow, instant gratification. It doesn't get any better than that does it?
 
12:57  So I went home to visit my parents, now it's Thanksgiving. And I said, got a new plan. I'm going to become the single mother of a Haitian baby. And my dad said, Oh, that sounds nice.
 
13:17  Like, okay, but I started doing a little bit of reading about what was going on in Haiti. And it was really the politics, the social, everything was breaking down. And there was a possibility that you could end up adopting a baby that had been kidnapped from a family that wanted that baby. And I thought I can't do that. So I went over to the Tippecanoe County Welfare Department because they do the county adoptions, and they said, Well, you're 35, and you're not married. But if you have patience, patience, we might eventually be able to offer you a handicapped baby or an older child who has been taken out of a troubled home. I said, okay, sure. I filled out the paperwork.
 
14:03  And I went home. And I talked to my parents, now it was Chanukkah, Christmas time. And he said, Okay, new new plan. I am going to eventually become the single mother of a physically and or emotionally handicapped child. And my parents said, Oh, that sounds nice.
 
14:25  I was thinking, Are you even listening to me now? But I went home to wait, okay.
 
14:32  And then my brother and my sister in law called me and asked me if I would come up to Wisconsin and watch their two little daughters for a week while they went on a cruise. They were two and five. And I said, Sure. And I tell you, Caitlin, and Nicola and I had the best time. Every day we went to the pool, in the park, in the playground, and then we go to Dairy Queen because that's the only way to get the girls out. of the pool or the, or the playground, say, if you come with me, we'll go to Dairy Queen.
 
14:55  And by the end of the week, I gained five pounds and I was exhausted. But I wanted a baby right now, because that was so much fun. I have to have a baby now.
 
15:20  So I'm driving home through Milwaukee, back to Indiana. And I'm looking on the radio for something to listen to. And here comes the music from All Things Considered on National Public Radio. And they were just in the middle of an interview about international adoption in China. And I guess I didn't even know about this, but they'd had an international adoption program, they did away with it. And now they were reopening it. And they only had two requirements for parents that they cared about. You had to be over 35 and have no other kids. And it was like a sign. I thought, wow. Because everything that was wrong with me to do with domestic adoption was okay with them. So I went home, and I was very excited about it. And I swear to you, this is true. I opened up the Journal and Courier the next morning, there's a story about a local woman whose daughter had adopted a little girl from China. And I thought, okay, I get it. You don't have to hit me with this big stick. I get it. All right.
 
16:26  Now I did not go home to check that plan out with my parents. I decided to listen to my heart. I tried to listen to my brain first. But my brain said, you know you'd like Chinese food. Like, nevermind, I listened to my heart. And my heart said, Oh, that sounds nice.
 
16:53  And less than a year later, I came home with my baby daughter, Samantha I know,  I named her that just so I could call her Sammy. And it sounds like the end of my motherhood story. But it's sort of only the beginning. There came a day not too long after that, maybe a year, she was just starting to say English words. And she liked the pointed things. And I would tell her what those things were. And we were flipping through a magazine, she would point and I would say the word. I flipped the page. And she pointed to a really gorgeous male underwear model. And before I could think, what do I call that? She said, Daddy and I thought, wait a minute. Wait a minute, how do you how do you even know that word? You don't have one? And then I thought, oh, okay, I get it. I get it.
 
17:55  Well, the story of how I met David, and how we got married is a little long. You can see me after the show. And I'll tell you that part is pretty funny too actually suffice it to say that we've been married for 25 years. And along the way, we adopted a little boy from Vietnam, who was a year old at the time. When I talked to parents about parenting, I like to say that Sammy was sent into my life to teach me that I could redefine myself I didn't have to be just a crappy businesswoman. I could be a really good mom. And just about the time I started believing that the universe sent Mikey to show me that I didn't know jack about that either. Mikey was sent to humblebee. And, and he has but Sammy, and Mikey and David are the lights of my life.
 
19:02  And now I also have a three year old grandson and his son in law. And Mikey has a girlfriend that I really like. No pressure. But I really liked her. And you know what that means, right? Bonus kids. It doesn't get any better than that. Thank you (applause) 

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KERRY  19:29  I love that.
 
JENETTE  19:30  Kerry, “It doesn't get any better than that.”
 
KERRY  19:33  Oh, absolutely. I loved everything about this. But I think because you know I'm at a similar stage of life. It was the dream piece. It made me laugh. It pulled on my heartstrings and it was really hard for me to watch it with a behind the scenes look, I really just heard it as an audience matter. And it was out of the park.
 
JENETTE  19:51  Oh yeah, you were doubled over in laughter. Yeah. laughter in the aisles, my friend. Myra, tell us your memories of that night.
 
MYRA  19:57  You know, it was a long day. But once you get up on that stage, there's just a... there's an energy. And there's also a tremendous amount of fear. Because I knew my speech, I had no intention of looking at my notes. But of course I have them, you have that, I think it's a natural fear of it, my mind is going to go blank. And I'm going to be standing six feet away from those notes, and forget my own story. But it worked out well. I felt good about it. Oh, I think there was one sentence I missed.
 
JENETTE  20:28  You pulled it off.
 
MYRA  20:28  It was a lot of fun.
 
JENETTE  20:30  You pulled it off beautifully.
 
MYRA  20:31  The audience was so nice. They were so receptive,
 
KERRY  20:35  they were
 
JENETTE  20:36  Very supportive, very loving. What I loved about how you crafted your story, were these repeat comments, these repeat lines that created a kind of a theme. And then you took the audience on a journey. And every time you went back to your parents with your new big idea, we got to know them a little bit. And like you said earlier in the episode, you know, just how laid back your parents really are. Do you think they really are that laid back? Or were they just letting you figure out your own way?
 
MYRA  21:06  You know, they're both gone now. But I would not have said as a kid that my parents were laid back. But I got to be college age, having not really screwed up, the police never had to come to the door about me. My brother had to hitchhike home from college because he got robbed at a party he shouldn't have been at. And you could call this money in his wallet and his shoes. Nothing like that ever happened to me. I wasn't there. Good, smartest child. I guess they tolerated my quirks. And I went into business for myself and I had no clue what I was doing. And they were very supportive of that. As far as this whole thing. It took me totally by surprise. Whenever I went up there to tell them my new plan, I expected pushback, and I expected objections. And not only were there no objections, they were so nice. Everytime I would do some outrageous thing they would say oh, yeah, that sounds nice. And they seem to really mean it. And I never did quite understand that. But I thought you know, just take it. It's a gift. Take it, don't question it. Don't ask for trouble. I wish I could go back in time and ask them What were you really thinking? Come on? Yeah. Yeah.
 
KERRY  22:22  I had that same thought. Because I know as a parent, there have been times where I want to scream What the heck are you thinking in my mind? And then I'm like, be cool, be cool. And say things like, sounds nice to me. Whatever, man. And inside, I'm like, you fool..
 
MYRA  22:36  I wish I was quite as cool. Because I do tend to say what the hell are you thinking? Though I have a daughter who is different from me. She's the daughter I talked about in the show. But she was another one who did all the things in life you're supposed to do ... it's my son
 
JENETTE  22:55  You called it out, you know, you raised this beautiful girl who? Who made you feel like the best mother in the whole world? Yeah, you're like, I got this. And then you had a boy. And when he entered your life, you realized you knew nothing about parenting?
 
MYRA  23:08  Yeah, exactly. And I swear that that whole story that I told is true, every bit of it. All those things. And I really did have an outline for my parenting book. I had the chapters outline what I was going to say, because I've been in a playgroup with all these other parents and their children, and some were just delightful, but some were not. And I thought I can just change the world with this book. And then we got Mikey, and I said, No, I think you should just put that book away in writing, because you don't have anything to share that anybody is going to be able to follow because none of it's working on this kid. But he is delightful So he is his own guy. He is not following the prescribed plan for young men. He's 24 Now, but he's got more guts than I think I ever had.
 
JENETTE  24:01  Well I'm just gonna say it sounds like he might be a little bit similar to the woman who raised him. Because you absolutely went out on a limb. What I really admire about you, and your story is that you listen to your heart. And even though your choices were not conventional, and like you said, he did things out of order, you knew in your heart of hearts that you wanted to become a mom, and you went through all the options, but nothing was going to stop you, nothing was going to deter you. Like that's my takeaway is that, you know, you were really true to yourself. And there are so many women who would ignore those urges because it's, it's not the right time, or I'm not supposed to or what are my parents gonna say?
 
MYRA  24:46 Not just that… true. I never really thought about it at the time. But I voiced felt that while I turned on the radio that day, and I heard about China, I thought, you know, maybe that's what I'm supposed to do. And I told him I had told him this story the next morning there's a story in the Lafayette by this time I was living in Lafayette, the Journal and Courier. There's a story about Chinese adoption and I really did think, all right, okay, I can I got it. You're sending me a sign. It's the right thing to do. I had no doubt there were several people that offered objections to it,  a guy that I had dated for a while. He called me when he heard about this in town. And he said, Don't do this. Oh my god, you can't do this. If you have a child, you're not going to be able to get any dates are never gonna get married. Well let you know...
 
JENETTE  25:37  Good lord, let's talk about your your dating journey here. You know that in a lot of our story development processes, there's always these conversations that come up. And we're like, Well, you know, we don't have time to add it to the story, but save it for the podcast. Yep. Because there's always a story behind the story. And Myra shared some of the ins and outs. Oh, that's a terrible way to say it. Mayra shared some of the ups and downs does that work? No. That doesn't work. Either. Meyers shared some of the shenanigans that she went through dating. And do you remember some of the ones we talked about that? We said, oh, let's share those when we make the podcast?
 
MYRA  26:18 Yeah, Howard. Lord, oh, how he looked good on paper. There was a woman in Lafayette for a while that was trying to do some kind of computer or video dating. She would videotape interviews with professional people and try to match him up and he on paper looks like a good match. He was good looking. He had he was a professor at Purdue. But we just we came from just different worlds. I can be rude. But then we when you're from the Midwest, and you apologize. Oh, Lord, it was one of those things. The only thing worse maybe the living your life without someone is trying to live with the wrong person. Dear God, I wanted to run him over with a bus not meant to be making me crazy. And they're all these women were saying? matter with you. He's a cat. She's a professor. He's good looking. He's Jewish. What in the world is wrong with you? And I'm trying to explain to them I'm from Illinois. You know, when the mice in Illinois, I can't do it. Like ah, is one woman said you're just like my daughter. And I wish him well, wherever the heck he is. I won't print his last name, but I am going to print power. And I'm sure he's long gone. I don't know what happened. But
 
JENETTE  27:35  Howard is providing years of entertainment. I know my right you have so many stories like seriously, I could listen to you all day. And now you've got two grown children and you're still together with your husband and you're writing books. And now you're working on your memoir to share the rest of the stories with the world and we're just so grateful that we had you for this one this one moment of time and this one story but I know there's so many more coming in I personally cannot wait to read them and to stay in touch with Myra Levine on her storytelling journey.
 
MYRA  28:06  Thank you so much.
 
KERRY  28:06  Thank you, Myra.
 
MYRA  28:12  I loved the whole experience. Thank you,
 
JENETTE  28:17  That is so funny. Yeah, you had talked about leaving some parts of the story out and being like if you want to hear what happens next you have to come back next year. And that's when I said we talk about it on the podcast (Myra laughing) because that's where we can fill in the blanks and share with our our listeners the story behind the story. It's so much fun when we get to do this I hope that all the women from Indy all those Hoosiers out there who are listening you know want to learn more about That's What She Said and want to check out the next show and the next and the next because there is no shortage of amazing women with amazing stories and so we're we're here for it. We're building that platform to raise women's voices and we want to thank our listeners and our supporters for making this possible. So thanks so much for joining us today on The She Said Project Podcast.
 
KERRY  28:24  You are just fantastic.
 
MYRA  28:36  If you ever change your policy where people can come back you let me know. (Kerry laughing)
 
MYRA  29:03  You're welcome. My pleasure.
 
KERRY  29:04  Over and out. 
 
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