Episode 91: Visiting with Ellen Cleary of Naperville, Il and her story “Connected at the Heart”

                                    SSPP ep. 91 ELLEN CLEARY

Co-hosts Jenette Jurczyk and Kerry Rossow welcome Ellen Cleary, who co-produced and performed in the inaugural  2024 Naperville That's What She Said show. Ellen shares her deeply personal story about  the profound impact her sister had on her.

ANNOUNCER  00:00  Raising women's voices one story at a time. Welcome to The She Said Project Podcast.
 [Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]

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JENETTE JURCZYK  00:27  Welcome to all of our friends in the world of That's What She Said. If you are listening, that means you've probably, I don't know, seen a show or known someone who was in a show or stumbled across us on the internet, but here on The She Said Project Podcast, we love to chat it up with women who have some amazing stories and have said yes to a bold and brave journey of sharing those stories live on stage. This is Jenette Jurczyk. I'm National Director of The She Said Project, and your co-host today.
 
KERRY ROSSOW  00:53  Co-host?
 
JENETTE  00:54  Co-host of the podcast.
 
KERRY  00:56  That's right. Well, I'm your co-host, and the co-founder, Kerry Rossow, and I am so excited to be here.
 
JENETTE  01:02  This is our 10th season of The She Said Project Podcast. We launched the podcast. What? Four years ago? Five, four years Yes, with the goal that the podcast would be kind, I see it like the glue that we we get to meet with women from different communities that have experienced That's What She Said. And every season we've opened up to one more new community, one more new community. Because when we started, it was just Champaign-Urbana.
 
KERRY  01:29  Yep. And the beauty is, is you get to know these women, and you hear their stories, and you connect with them, and it's such an intense experience. And then the show is over, and everybody you know, life moves on and you meet a new cast. But there, it's always in our minds, I wonder how that person's doing. I wonder what happened with XYZ. And so the podcast is really a great way to loop back and check in with people that we really care about.
 
JENETTE  01:56  And we are so privileged that we get to spend this time with them and hear the stories behind the stories and what's happened since. And our listeners are really lucky, because they also, you know, maybe they saw the show, maybe they didn't, but we know that every story shared has a ripple effect and can impact you right here right now, because it's something you need to hear, or it might lodge in your memory and come back one day when you need it the most.
 
KERRY  02:19  Mm-hmm, well today's guest is, she's a rock star and and her story has, I'm not trying to make a pun on what her title was, but it did touch my heart so, so deeply and, and I think about her all the time. So let's bring her on.
 
JENETTE  02:35  This is our first guest from our new That's What She Said community of Naperville, Illinois. Naperville came on the scene with their first show in 2024 and our guest, Ellen Cleary, is so special, because not only was she on stage sharing her story that night, but she is one of the partners in crime up there in Naperville and produced this first show and is currently working on her next so...
 
KERRY  02:58  She did it all.
 
JENETTE  02:59  Ellen, welcome to The She Said Project Podcast. We are so happy to have you here today.
 
ELLEN CLEARY  03:04  Thank you. Thank you for having me, guys. I appreciate it. It's fun to be here. Quite the introduction.
 
JENETTE  03:08  You know, Ellen and I have quite a an interesting story how we found each other. She has a friend who was living you know how people come into your life for a season or a reason or a or a moment? There's a woman here in Champaign. She lived here, and I think she's moved on. She came here
 
ELLEN  03:24  She's closer to me now, she moved back to the south side area...
 
JENETTE  03:29  Due to circumstances, our world's overlapped. We got to know each other very, very briefly. She and I never really connected, but in our brief interaction, she said, "you know, I have a friend who you need to know, and her name is Ellen, and you guys are gonna click." And she connected us. And I remember our first phone conversation, Ellen, I was sitting in my car in my garage. We could not stop talking to each other.
 
ELLEN  03:49  And I appreciated that drive, because I was stuck on the other side of O'Hare trying to get back to Naperville from a networking meeting. And like, Sure, I'll drive with you. I'll commute with you. And I'm like, wow, I think I mentioned that one of my new best friends, like, like, you know, when you talk to somebody, it's like, you talk to them like you're reconnecting with an old friend. That's what that conversation was like. And I was like, oh, there's something special here. And I, you know, besides being you, of course, I really think that was the connection around She Said, and how important it is right for us to be speaking our truths and owning our truths, and being comfortable with other people knowing who we are and just we connected on such a deep level over the importance of of that kind of honor for ourselves and for our our neighbors, that it was I don't know from day one. I've always felt that.
 
JENETTE  04:33  Right out of the gate, and even though we live more than two -- almost three hours apart, Ellen kept showing up. She supported our show. She would show up for our show. She came down for some She Said pre parties. I mean, she just kept showing up because she knew she wanted to get involved. And when the opportunity came to bring That's What She Said to Naperville. Oh, boy, did she!
 
ELLEN  04:53  Yeah, exactly like I said. I really felt like this was something I needed to do. Right from the beginning, I'm a bit of, a bit of a chatter and I like to tell stories in general. You know, it's just sort of the way I roll that what we were doing with The She Said Project, and raising people's voices within our community just spoke so perfectly to what was important to me. I've been struck by the need to, sort of a desire to change the world in some way or another. And, you know, I'm not so, you know, full of it, that I think that I that I can change everything about the world, but if I can start in my backyard and make the world a kinder, gentler place for my kiddos, right? That that's that's something that I felt like I can could control, and that I could make a difference in in a very meaningful way. And I think we did. I think, I think we're there. So I'm excited about the opportunity. I'm so glad that we got a chance to share what was kind of a hard story for me to share, because I tend pursue humor, and I tend to pursue, you know, distraction, and I really thought it was important for me to stretch myself and let people in on something about, you know, foundational, foundational about who I am and how I got here, and trust my community to support me through it.
 
KERRY  06:07  That's funny, because I was thinking yours was going to be funny just for my impression. And I loved because, you know, I typically seek out the funny and find the funny also. And so then when I heard your story, it was just so touching, and I was so glad that you had gone against what others also probably expected. It was the unexpected story, and it was, it was really beautiful, but, but maybe it's time to share the story with everybody.
 
JENETTE  06:33  Absolutely. That's What She Said Naperville was one of the very first shows that I wasn't involved in directing or producing. I got to go up and spend the day with them and sit in the audience and cheer them on, and also knowing Ellen, going into the producing process, didn't know her story, was completely surprised by what you brought to the stage, and got to experience that feeling that the audience gets hearing it for the first time. And so for our listeners here on the podcast, we want you to have that experience too. So whether you saw Ellen's live performance or not, get ready, because this one's going to knock your socks off. So we're going to take a listen to Ellen's performance from that fateful night on stage, in That's What She Said Naperville 2024 with her story, "Connected at the Heart." Enjoy.  

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 (recorded April 13, 2024 at Wentz Concert Hall, North Central College, Naperville, IL)
ELLEN CLEARY 07:22  My only sibling was born exactly 18 months and two days after me, her entry into this world was unexpected and a bit dramatic. Back in the olden days, they didn't have the technology to know anything about a baby before she arrived in the world, so the fact that the baby was a girl was just as surprising to my parents and to the doctors as the fact that she had an extra chromosome in her 21st pair.
 
07:49  Kate was born with Down's Syndrome. My earliest memories feature Kate prominently. I vividly recall sitting in the waiting room at Huntington Hospital, while my parents saw her admitted to the pediatric ward. You see, our lives revolved around Kate's health by necessity. She had seven bouts of pneumonia and two strokes before the age of three due to an underlying heart condition. They also did not have the technology to understand.
 
08:21  But my memory of that time is not of her being sick, it's not of my parents being worried. It's a core memory of a tiny me. I'm sitting on a love seat with these really thin vinyl cushions, and I'm so small that my legs don't hang out. They just stick straight out. I don't wander, you know, cry. No one hands me a toy, no one tries to distract me. I just sit and I wait, because you're three years old, I understand the assignment. Sit, wait, they'll be back. And they always, were always and life went on in my childhood with our family focused on Kate's fragile medical state.
 
09:13  Now, although we weren't your typical siblings, we were very, very close. I included her in our neighborhood fun whenever I could. Now, I grew up in Long Island, and all the houses in our neighborhood had the same basic floor plan. It was a bit of a circle, and if you started on the far side of the kitchen, you could reach maximum velocity by the time you moved into the living room. (laughter) And that was one of one of our favorite rainy day games. And specifically our favorite rainy day game was to set Kate up as a hurdle in the living room, and my friends and I would leap over her as we ran our laps. Now she loved that, but probably. She was very low hurdle for us to clear, but then it would be her turn right, and she would, you know, get ready to take her lap, and we'd all lie down on the floor one by one, and she'd come around eventually, and she'd flash a big smile as she'd step carefully over each one of us, and then she collapsed breathlessly next to me in a fit of giggles. It was great. At night we were always together, always and I just cherished her. Right from the start. She was my heart, my very own sweet baby, and we never fought, which is not entirely true. (laughter)
 
10:42  I punched her... once, exactly once, in frustration. Mom and dad had gone out, and I was stuck there, so I punched her and she looked at me with these shocked eyes and walked out of the room, and then about a minute later, she came back in and crawled in my lap and apologized, which was exactly the response it did not want. (laughter) Not at all I was going through some frozen creatine angst. And more than anything, I just wanted to fight right. I wanted somebody, maybe even to punch me back, but she didn't. She never would. She always accepted my frustration, my pain, my absurdity, with grace.
 
11:38  I cried big tears that afternoon, and I begged her to forgive me. We watched The Sound of Music ... again, and we cuddled up in the same Lazy Boy recliner, like we did so many times before.
 
11:57  And for the record, I never put my hands on her again, not one time. Her simple ability to forgive, without question, taught me the lessons that have stuck with me for a lifetime. I don't hold grudges, and with rare exception, I always take the higher point, even when the low root is perhaps the easier or more obvious choice I lead with grace and kindness and acceptance today, because of that stubborn red head with a joyful spirit and a very forgiving heart.
 
12:37  Throughout our teen years, Kate's health ebbed and flowed. When I was in middle school, she collapsed in her classroom. Her heart was no longer pumping blood effectively, and she needed a pacemaker. Kate spent six weeks in a cardiac hospital, going through multiple surgeries and extended periods in isolation to ward off infection. Honestly, nothing was ever simple. And the entire time that she was in that hospital, I could feel her pain in my body every waking moment My heart ached, both metaphorically and physically.
 
13:23  Now, one evening in April, Kate was scheduled to go into yet another surgery, and my parents decided it was really important for me to attend the birthday party of the season. Now as an adult, of course, I understand they probably just needed some a long time, right? I get it, but at the time, it was a really strange you to go to a party, really okay, I will
 
13:48  Daddy and I were driving home on the parkway, that crushing pain in my chest, the one that I have felt ever since she's entered that hospital, it vanished, was gone. In my heart, it sank, daddy, something is wrong. I can't feel her. And he looked over at me. He was completely confused. And I'm pretty sure this is the first time that I uttered these exact words out loud, "I think she's dying."
 
14:21  He called the hospital when we got back to the house, she was in surgery by then, and I came to believe that my loss of that physical connection was due to anesthesia. She wasn't in pain any longer, so neither was I. And I probably should talk about the party a little bit. I don't remember it. What I really remember about the party is that the birthday girl's mother was exceptionally nice to me that night.
 
14:47 As my high school graduation approached, I realized I needed to get away to take steps to become my own person. I applied to 11 colleges and I ultimately chose the one that was 1000 miles away from on purpose. Honestly, I just needed some space to breathe. Once I moved out, Kate realized that she could leave too, and she began having daily conversations with Jack and Janet her imaginary roommates, and talked non stop about the really fun times they were having every night at the Regal Beagle. To their credit, my parents understood that what Kate was really craving was more independence, and they began the process of finding her a group home where she could spread her wings. Unlike me, of course, she was accepted by the first community she interviewed with, and she actually got her first apartment while I was still living in a dorm.
 
15:51  Several years later it really all runs together now, Kate suffered a massive stroke while showering in that apartment, it impacted her hearing and her speech. For a while, she still tried to talk to us, but over time, we think she just got mad that nobody was talking to her, and she became silent. After college, I took a job in publishing, and in December of 1993 I began a Planes, Trains and Automobiles like Journey to spend Christmas with my parents, who were then  then retired and living in Florida, like all good New Yorkers, I went from O'Hare to Logan to Albany, where Kate was living. And when I entered her home, she smiled when she saw me. She gave me a big hug, but I could tell something was erratically different from the second I walked in.
 
16:51  After a restless night on yet another vinyl sofa, we boarded a plane together, and that holiday week was strange and awkward. My parents seemed oblivious to the changes of her -- changes that screamed like a neon sign to me. And so I said it out loud again to make sure they understood "mommy, daddy, that this is our last Christmas together. Kate is dying."
 
17:24  A few days after Christmas, Kate and I left Florida together. We settled into the last row of a very dark airplane, and we were as alone as we would ever be. I looked at her, and I shook my head, and they just said, "I can't." And she put her hands on my face, and she drew me to her chest, and she stroked my hair as I cried and I worked towards acceptance.
 
17:58  The call came to my cubicle late in the work day on February 28, 1994 Kate was in the ER. Her heart had stopped, and they were trying to revive her, as we had agreed as a family more than a decade earlier, the doctors had one minute, one minute to break her back, and then they had to let her go.
 
18:24  So I said, she's gone. Yes, my Mom replied, she's gone. Are you okay? Yes. And they replied, and you just said, No, are you okay? And I took a deep breath, and I steadily replied, Yes, I'm okay, because just as it had been some 25 years earlier, I understood the assignment, this time, foisted on me by me and by Kate, we had come to a wordless understanding on that flight from Tampa to Albany, she would leave, and I would take care of them. I would not let them fall apart, and I would make them proud. For both of us.
 
19:17  It's been 30 years now since I looked into those deep blue eyes that help me in such regard. I have spent now more years without her than I ever did with her, but she is with me daily in how I listen and how I make space for other people's pain, and how I parent and how I still talk, in my smile, in my patience, in my silliness and yes, in my candor, in absolutely everything I do, she is always right here.  

(applause)
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JENETTE  19:57  Bawling. Bawling over here. I need a tissue.
 
KERRY  19:59 It was just so touching in every way and beautiful. And it really felt like an honor to hear that story and what was so deeply personal to you and your family, and ...
 
JENETTE  20:13  What a beautiful tribute to your sister. Yeah,
 
ELLEN  20:15  Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Yeah. You know, for me, that was very meaningful, as you guys know, I lost my sister in 1994 but you know, she's always part of everything I do, you know, and how I think about things. What was really special for me was having my mom in the audience, and also my daughter, who doesn't really know that much about her Aunt Kate. I mean, she knows about her, but not like in that kind of deep, meaningful way, in a way that makes her understand me better. So having two important women in the audience to hear that story, that that was another big thing for me too,
 
JENETTE  20:48
To get to go through that with you, that I mean, that really can connect you to people in your life when you were that vulnerable. There's no other way around it.
 
KERRY  20:57  How old is your daughter?
 
ELLEN  20:58  She just turned 13.
 
KERRY  21:00  Ah, well, I was wondering about that, because I think, you know, sometimes there's that story, or that glimpse into your mom before she was your mom, and thinking, you know, that aha moment of, like, Ah, she's just a girl. And, like, I'm sure that was really powerful for her to hear you tell that story of, you know, the before mom land.
 
ELLEN  21:20  I think it was, I mean, I think it might have been a little bit more powerful for me. I think it's one of those things that she might reflect on later on and like, Oh, wow. But just being able to just share that experience with her in general, not just my story, but the experience of, you know, these are nine women on stage, owning who they are, telling their truth, trusting us with that. That that was a big deal for me, because one of the things I really want to do as a as a mom, as a parent, is is to make sure that she has her voice, that she knows that it's okay to share herself authentically with other people, and if they don't like it, that's their problem, not hers. We're working really, really strongly right now on the importance of belonging versus just fitting in. And, you know, and that's, that's a lot of where my my lessons are coming from. And I can't hit her over the head with those lessons. I can't say, hey, let's belong in. I if I try to, you know, we all talk about leading by example. That's one way I try to do it. See, see what these other people said, too. See what mom's willing to say. That's important to me, that we, that we represent in a pretty strong way, that, yeah, powerful women have tell powerful stories. They let they trust people with with information. They don't tell them every little thing, of course, but at the same time, they're willing to go there. They're willing to take a chance, and they're going to come out better on the other side for it. If somebody doesn't connect with you see, that's their loss, because you're pretty amazing. That's that's the lesson that I like to have her get repeated in her ears one way or another, pretty close to every day of the week
 
KERRY  22:56  Even if she isn't hearing the words or she doesn't, they don't land until later, I always think that about my kids, they're watching. And it makes me, you know, when I want to take the low road and, you know, and I'm like, but that road would be so much fun. I got it all in my head what to say, but I don't, because I know our kids are watching.
 
ELLEN 23:13  Yeah, I you know that that adage of focusing on the outcome you want is really helpful when you have that perfect quip that I too, Kerry, do not share most times,
 
KERRY  23:26  just in the shower in the morning.
 
ELLEN  23:28  Oh yeah,
 
JENETTE  23:30  That is our quality time. I do love how you point out that fitting in and belonging are not one in the same, because and belonging is something that comes from within. It's not something you seek outside of yourself. I mean, I could have a whole Brene Brown moment here, but I love the choice of that word, and it's so true. It's It's believing in yourself and finding you know, finding who you are and where you belong, for yourself and not relying on other people. You're in those junior high years, and my dear friend, so am I so I understand
 
KERRY  24:03  Thoughts and prayers, girls
 
JENETTE  24:05  Are we gonna make it Kerry?
 
KERRY  24:06  yes, yes, there's a light at the end.
 
ELLEN  24:09  So far is better than 12 -- by a whole bunch
 
JENETTE  24:13  Good, I need to get there. We're working on it. We're working on it. Tell us about your experience as a producer like this is, you know your story, your the moment with your mom and everything, but you had, you did a lot of work leading up to that one night.
 
ELLEN  24:27  Yes, it's a lot of work. Jenette, it's a whole lot of work.
 
JENETTE  24:30  Yeah, I heard.
 
ELLEN  24:30  And, yeah, it's surprising, like, it's amazing. You can't just go, Okay, let's do a show next week. The from, you know, identifying and courting sponsors so you can do a quality show and have have the support that you need from the community to finding the right speakers and understanding the order to put them in so that your show flows really beautifully. You know, you don't leave people with the impression that they're, you know, at a funeral. It's a really, really amazing journey that we went on to get there. There are so many details and so many things that I, you know, I'm much more of a business person than I am a theater type like you folks are. But luckily, my co producer, Lisa, is much more, you know, theatery,
 
JENETTE  25:19  yeah, you guys were
 
ELLEN  25:20  much more of a show better than me. We made a good team that way.
 
JENETTE  25:25  Yeah, you two were an excellent pair, and you complimented each other very well.
 
KERRY  25:28  Yeah, it's always been really important to us to have that ebb and flow of stories, because that is reflective of what our lives are, right? Sometimes our lives are funny, sometimes they're serious, then sometimes there's a great meaning in just the humdrum of everyday life. And you guys really nailed it on making sure you represented that whole spectrum.
 
ELLEN  25:49  I appreciate you saying that it's it's not something that I had thought about until we were in the moment, working with the cast, and I was both a member of the cast. But you know, you flip your hat around depending on whether you're standing in front of the room or listening to the stories and supporting your fellow castmates, and you know, having my producer hat on, it was like, oh, this person should open. Oh, this person should be we became really clear. And so Lisa actually presented me with an order that she had come up with from working really closely with the other cast members, and it was almost identical to the one that I had, you know, written down on my own, as I get aligned perfectly, because we really wanted that. And the gal who went after me in the cast told a very, very funny story that really lifted the room, you know, where my mine was maybe a little bit more emotional. Hers was, Jenette, what would you say? Not that emotional?
 
JENETTE  26:41  No, you need the levity to lighten the room after you can't have an audience sitting there in the in these dark moments for an hour or two hours, you create that balance. And people ask me all the time, well, how do you know what the order is going to be? And I always say, it will reveal itself. It always does.
 
ELLEN  26:59  And it's 100% did, 100% did.
 
JENETTE  27:03  Yeah, yeah. I don't put any pressure on myself to have that too soon, by the time every story is, you know, getting to the point where it's finalized, and we're a couple weeks out, and we're listening to the stories, the order shows itself, and it makes sense, because that's what we want. We want that that tapestry of emotions that we weave together. And that's the, that's the fun of being the director and the producer. It's, you know, it's, there are so many, so many moving parts, you know, that you have to put together, but watching these women go through this process and find their stories, and then you get to to be the, you know, the puppet master, putting all the pieces together for the final result. It's, it's exhilarating. I think.
 
ELLEN  27:42  100% agree, and, you know, and I didn't realize it would be like that. I knew that the stories needed to balance each other out. I knew that we wanted to represent our community with, you know, how? You know, with the people we invited to be on stage, we wanted it to be representative that and people, their stories just emerged from them as we were going through it. So many of them changed. My story changed dramatically from the first time that I was working on it till when I finally delivered it on stage. It's such a process and such a growth process for all i tell you when I talk to the cast members, you know a couple of them and have said to me, Well, you've kind of wrecked my life, because now I need more from, you know, from what I was doing. I can't go back to just getting through I have to be, you know, out there, participating, doing all this stuff. And we have a group text that we share regularly still, as a as a unit, and it's always like, okay, who's messed up my life today?
 
KERRY  27:44  I love that.
 
ELLEN  27:51  It's pretty funny. But yeah, we did create this sisterhood. It's nice.
 
KERRY  28:46  What was the feedback you got from your family and community and your your pals afterward?
 
ELLEN  28:52  Well, you know, nicer I mentioned that my mom and my daughter were in the audience. Two of my high school girlfriends flew in from New York for it, which was really amazing. And so they were in the audience. A number of my college friends were in the audience, and certainly a lot of members of the community that I knew. So that was tremendous, just to have it there. I was less nervous about standing upstage. I love a microphone. I'm like Jenette. I really love a microphone. So I was not stressed out about that. But when I had to release that to the YouTube, like on social media, I nearly, I nearly passed out, like I the anxiety level was so I, I, yeah, it was really funny, and I was glad that at least one of our other cast members had the same exact reaction. You know, it's just like, okay, yeah, I don't know there you can there's only four or 500 people in the room Kerry. So you know that they hated me that would be done and over within 10 minutes. But you know, the internet lives forever. So that was one of the cool things about that my babysitter, who babysat both me and Kate, you know, when we were little, she actually was waiting for it. She commented on the YouTube page. Then she sent it to her brother, who was in my high school class. And, long story short, he got in touch with me. He came to my high school reunion this summer because of the story I told on stage.
 
KERRY  30:13  What?
 
JENETTE  30:14  Oh my goodness.
 
ELLEN  30:16  And so yeah, it was, it was amazing. So essentially, my entire high school class in New York has seen it now too. I've had people reach out to me and just tell me how much you know, either that they remembered my sister, they you know, they remember that, or they're like, Wow. I didn't realize that while we were busy being teenagers and doing crazy things, you were also living this life. And I was like, Yeah, wow. So it was really, really quite personally gratifying, I will say, an unexpected gift that particular night was in the lobby after the show. We were taking pictures in the photo booth and doing, you know, having a glass of wine with people, and, you know, getting our congratulations and hugs and all that kind of stuff. Woman I'd never laid eyes on before commentary. She said, I need to talk to you. And she and I said, Okay, what's up, you know? And she said, I loved your story. I said, Oh, thank you. And I thought it was just gonna be one of those things. And she said, My son has Down syndrome. And I said, Oh, okay. And she said, I've never thought about how my daughter relates to this before, and now I understand it so much better. And I was like, Oh, I didn't know I could do that too. So that was my Oh, my goodness, I made a difference in, I mean, difference in somebody's daughter's life, and she doesn't even know it.
 
JENETTE  31:31  You made a difference even realize it in her life, like that night. That's like instant gratification, if you will. But, but that, I mean, that just is one example to show you that's someone who heard you in that moment. So be proud of the fact that you put it out on the internet, because there are more people who need to hear that story, who can empathize and sympathize with you and and learn from you and take it back home and and and ask questions and connect with their sisters and children in new ways. That's the magic of what we get to do, the magic of storytelling. There's one particular line that is in your story, and I I watched it again on the internet's, you know, in preparation for a conversation today, and I found myself not just tearing up, but I mean full on bawling in my office today, and when you came to peace, you know, you came to terms with letting Kate go, and you knew you had to be the one to be strong for your mom and dad. And I don't even know if I'm going to be able to say the line, but when you said, Because I saved this on purpose for the end of the podcast, when you said it is up to me now to go out and make them proud for both of us. Yeah, and I just, I want to be the one here to to say to you, Ellen Cleary, that you are you did. You're doing it. I am so proud of you. I know mom is proud of you, and I know Kate's proud of you.
 
ELLEN  33:04  Yeah, I do too. I do too. It was, that was a realization I came to when I was doing the story. I mean, I was knew that it was in the background, but as I did, it was like, Wow. No, it was she she passed it to me on that plane ride. It was my turn. She would leave, I would stay. I would take care of them. I would make them proud, for both of us. And it's funny because I didn't listen to that part of the story, because it makes me emotional too, but it's true, and yeah, if I can live my life in a way that makes my family proud of me, for both of us. Yeah, it's good. It's all good.
 
JENETTE  33:46  Well, I'm just done now. I'm just...
 
KERRY  33:50  We're gonna go over to the local bar now.
 
ELLEN  33:53   Now I'm just mad that we're not doing this together. Kerry
 
KERRY  33:58  Well, I can't wait to see what happens next, because you are just a force and just an amazing person.
 
ELLEN 34:04  Well we're full steam ahead for 2025 right now, we are in the throes of casting I've talked to a number of people about that, doing a lot of networking with local organizations, looking for our nonprofit beneficiary as well, too, and working through a whole bunch of stuff, but you know, it's great to be part of this community. I'm very honored to have worked with Lisa to launch this in Naperville in 2024
 
JENETTE  34:29  Well, we are honored and thrilled that you are in the SheSaidisphere… in the family and now here on the podcast. So thank you for keeping the mission moving forward. There are so many women who are going to benefit because of your gifts and your passion. Ellen, we just did and will continue to so we're so grateful for everyone who makes The She Said Project Podcast possible. This was created in partnership with Illinois Public Media. We're here in their awesome studios. We owe a huge thanks to Sterling Wealth Management and Carle Health and Health Alliance. And I mean, we are sitting here in Champaign-Urbana, which is, you know, the flagship, but the mission of That's What She Said has gone so much further and continues to grow. And because of women like you, Ellen, who stood up and said yes, and we are grateful, and thank you for joining us. And it's just, it's just a time to celebrate here on The She Said Project Podcast.
 
KERRY  35:22  Thank you Ellen.
 
ELLEN  35:23  Thank you both. I appreciate you.
 
KERRY  35:24  Bye, over and out.

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[Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]

ANNOUNCER  35:30  Thank you for listening to The She Said Project Podcast in partnership with Illinois Public Media. All materials contained in the podcast for the exclusive property of The She Said Project and That’s What She Said, LLC. For more information on our live shows go to [url=https://shesaidproject.com]https://shesaidproject.com[/url]
 
This podcast was made possible with support from Carle and Health Alliance and presented by Sterling Wealth Management, empowering women to live their best lives.