Episode 96: Visiting with Heather Schmidt of Naperville and her story, “Not For Everyone”

                                    SSPP ep. 96 HEATHER SCHMIDT

With us this week in The She Said Project Podcast studio, Heather Schmidt of the inaugural That's What She Said Naperville recounts the story she shared of her struggle with self-expression, balancing her professional life as a realtor with her personal identity, ultimately embracing her authentic self.

ANNOUNCER  00:00  Raising women's voices one story at a time. Welcome to The She Said Project Podcast.
 [Music: The She Said Project Podcast Theme]

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JENETTE JURCZYK  00:26  I could not be more excited about this episode of The She Said Project Podcast. So thank you for being here. Thank you to everyone who makes this podcast possible, Illinois Public Media, our sponsors. This is Jenette Jurczyk , your host, national director, all the things. Kerry Rossow, are you ready?
 
KERRY ROSSOW  00:41  I am so ready. I feel this way every single show. But there is something special about the podcasts that have women from different cities than ours, because I feel like I don't know them very well. I'm just sort of like the creepy pretend BFF that because I've seen them and their piece, and that sounds kinky, (Jenette laughs) but let me just say that again, I have seen them
 
JENETTE  00:41  Share their stories, live onstage, in a That's What She Said performance
 
KERRY  00:44  Nobody's showing their piece .. usually, but it makes me so excited to see them, because I want to hear what's happening, what's going on, what was the feedback?
 
JENETTE  01:17  We want to know all the things, all right, so I'm going to put our guest today on the spot because she doesn't know I'm going to do this.
 
KERRY  01:22  uh oh.
 
JENETTE  01:22  But a few weeks ago, I got a message on Facebook from a woman named Heather Schmidt, and this is what she wrote, "Hi Jenette. I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for leading The She Said Project, for continuing the platform that impacts so many. This has been an honor witnessing other women grow as they develop their stories and conquer their fears and being on stage was a truly kick ass experience, if we can say that on public eadio, none of that compares to today." So the day she sent me this message was the day they released their videos, their YouTube clips, into the world. "I shared my story on social media and the messages I am getting from women who have never felt so seen or understood is quite humbling. It is truly an honor to be part of this amazing mission. I am grateful to have been part of this group and look forward to supporting future casts." So this shows up in my inbox. I maybe cried, or I had something stuck in my eye, and I wrote her back, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And then she's in the She Said family for life. You know, she's a lifer, so of course, we had to have her on the podcast in our awesome season 10. This is season 10, and it's a party. So Heather, welcome back to the She Said land. We got you, girl.
 
HEATHER SCHMIDT  02:39  Thank you for having me. And I was all prepared to make some kinky creeper joke. And now I'm all emotional.
 
JENETTE  02:50  I totally intercepted, I intercepted the commentary with, yes, these are your beautiful words, and I apologize for you know, putting you on the spot. But I really wanted to share, I have read this message in front of multiple groups of women now because it means so much to me, because you are someone who went through a That's What She Said experience that I was not a part of. You went through the process with our team in Naperville, and it fills my heart to know that you had the same impactful, profound experience that we try to create here at the mothership and in all of our communities. But you did it up there, and I was just an observer that night. So thank you.
 
HEATHER  03:31  Yeah, the ripple is growing and continues.
 
KERRY  03:34  So tell me how you got involved in the first place.
 
HEATHER  03:38  I am friends with Ellen, who was the co-producer of the inaugural show and I would have been hearing about this for years, and I could never make a show with her down state. And when she finally announced that she was bringing it to Naperville, I'm like, great. How can I help? I will get behind you any way I can. Like, who do I need to call? What do I need to do? And she said, be on stage. And I laughed at her, like, okay, sure, no, like, maybe, like, two or three years from now, she's like, Yeah, no, no.
 
JENETTE  04:15  Today is the day.
 
HEATHER  04:16  So that was like, All right, I'm gonna lean in and whatever resistance I have, I'm just going to lean in, and if I'm part of the cast, it's meant to be, and if I'm not, I'm not. So it was a lot of trust and faith and Ellen seeing something in me that I didn't see in myself.
 
KERRY  04:35  I heard someone say this once, sometimes we lean in and sometimes we lean on -- and I think your cast was a great representation of that. Well, I guess I shouldn't talk about,
 
JENETTE  04:45  Let's talk about her piece...
 
KERRY  04:46  I'm sorry I keep calling it your piece. I don't mean I'm gonna talk about your piece now,
 
JENETTE  04:55  Heather. Heather shares quite a journey, if you will. You know, from who she was and how she found herself. And Kerry is right, like, we don't want to dive too far in, because we really want our audience to hear the story. But I'm gonna ask you real quick, when you were asked to be in That's What She Said, how long did it take you to find your story? Did you know right away what you were going to share? Or was there a process?
 
HEATHER 05:19  Oh, it was a process, and we were well into full rehearsals, and I still did not have my story developed.
 
JENETTE  05:25  That's shocking, because it came together so beautifully. And I hope you feel proud of what you shared, because, man, oh, man, it's it's changing lives Heather, and I think we can change some lives right now by sharing it with our podcast audience. So it is time for everyone to get to know Heather Schmidt a little bit more. So we're going to take a listen to her story that she shared on stage in That's What She Said Naperville, which was the first Naperville show in the spring of 2024 so here is her story for your enjoyment, "Not for Everyone." 

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 (recorded April 13, 2024 at Wentz Concert Hall, North Central College, Naperville, IL)

HEATHER SCHMIDT  05:57  I was raised in a blended family. My mom always explained it as yours, mine and ours. My eldest sister is five years older, and my brother is 18 years older than me. I'm the caboose. Being a young child in the 70s with teenage siblings was definitely interesting. There were many family meetings I was not part of. When I was sent to my room, I knew someone was in trouble. I've been an aunt since I was two years old. When I was six, one of my brothers was caught smoking and suspended, and we won't even go into when my sister came home with a hickey. I was just 10. I learned at an early age to do everything I could to not be the one in trouble. I was a straight A student, involved in church musicals, plays, school band, babysat the neighborhood kids helped out at my great aunt's senior center. Sounds a little annoying, even to me, remembering it (laughter)
 
05:57  Being the perfect child wasn't about praise. It was the way to stay under the radar, to not be part of the family meetings. This went on into my own teenage years, doing whatever I could to fit in, be the good girl, being what I thought everyone expected, and it was exhausting. I yearned to be different, to be my own person, to do what I wanted to do or not do.
 
07:33  When I was 15, I had a dream, thought about it all the time. So desperately wanted to get a tattoo. (laugher) Now this may not seem like a big deal today, but in the 80s, tattoos were associated with bikers, sailors and inmates. (laughter) It was unheard of for a teenager to have one, especially a girl. And my dad was Jewish. Jewish law forbids getting a tattoo. It was made very clear in my household that if we got a tattoo, we would be disowned. But I still wanted one. Oh, I wanted that tattoo. It was my ultimate way to break out. To be the free spirit I was, and I had it all designed in my head. On one arm, I was gonna get a skull with a dagger in it (laughter) and a snake wrapped all around. And the other arm was going to be a black rose with thorns and blood dripping from it. (laughter) You may say I had a little teenage angst going on.
 
08:53  Finally, the day came, the end of my senior year in high school, at 18 years old, I went and got my first tattoo. It was my time to make waves and do my own thing. My time to show up exactly how I was, who I was, and I did it. I got a little rosebud right here that no one could see. I was happy with it, and I couldn't wait to show it to people -- that I wanted to -- and show how cool I was.
 
09:27  A few weeks later, during a routine visit to my brother at college, I was all excited. I loved hanging out with friends. I'd go and visit him, I'd go to the bars with them, go to somebody's house, and we'd have game night. I felt so cool hanging out with the college kids. So during this visit, we're at dinner, I lean over to him and I whisper, I got a tattoo. His response was not the 'You're so cool. High five.' I expected, no. So his knee jerk reaction was one of shock and disapproval. He punched me in the arm. I guess one of us wasn't so cool after all.
 
10:11  Later that summer, I went off to college, and on the rare occasion, I wore a shirt that showed the tattoo, random people would stop me. In dismay. I often heard I can't believe you have a tattoo. And when I stood up in my brother's wedding, the dress had to be altered. I was not allowed to be a bridesmaid with any ink showing. I wasn't prepared for this. I loved that I had tattoos, that I had done something truly for me, but I didn't love the negative attention. I expected being my own person to make me feel cool and liberated. Turns out, being publicly shamed, creating feelings of regret and embarrassment, empowerment, not so much.
 
10:59  So when I went for my second tattoo, it was was once again, it was in a place that was easily covered on my shoulder. And this started the recurring theme in my life, be brave, be me, then shrink back when people didn't like how I showed up. Everyone seemed to react in a negative way. So I cut myself hidden, just like my tattoos. This was true in many areas, how I dressed, how I did my hair. I wanted to be fun, to be me, but that chatter, it was always there. What would my family think? My clients? Random strangers on the street? In my mind, in order to be successful in real estate, I had to have the Rachel haircut and wear a black blazer. My goal was to be what everyone expected and accepted.
 
11:56  When I told my hairstylist I wanted to play with color, we decided a few pink stripes on the bottom layers was the perfect spot so daring, so safe and once again, hidden. After many years of therapy and personal development and a lot of internal work, when I was 44 I was ready to fully express myself with another tattoo.
 
12:25  This one was going to be a cute little blight house on the inside of my wrist, daring but safe. My tattoo artist explained that with the detail I wanted, it should be a little bigger and a better placement might be on the outside of my arm. In the moment, he's the professional, great. Let's do it. So I wound up with this, not at all easy to hide. It was out there. I was out there. Still so uncomfortable.
 
13:03  Running to the grocery store. I was anxious. I felt like I was walking around with a neon sign pointing at me, drawing everyone's attention. Any time people would comment about it or ask about it, my inner chatter would scream, what did I do? That fear of what others think was ever present, and this went way beyond tattoos. It was everywhere in my life, especially in my business. When I was 47 I decided to do something different, something not everyone does. I shared my woo, woo side with my clients, I rebranded myself as a holistic realtor. I talked about crystals and energy clearings and moon cycles, just enough that people were really confused (laughter). And I wasn't loud enough for my people to find me.
 
14:02  I had my worst year in real estate, and once again, I quieted down in order to please everyone. There I was caught between two worlds. My desire to be everything to everyone was in direct conflict with my yearning to live my authentic life, it was one or the other. I was stuck in fear, afraid of judgment, rejection and even more failure. Eventually, I made a decision. It wasn't some momentous event that changed my world. I had just had enough. I was tired of being tired, tired of the fear, tired of being someone I wasn't, tired of not being me. It was time to let my weird little light shine.
 
14:59  Trusting I would find my people, and they would find me, and now I have an undercut, whatever color hair I want, a tattoo on the side of my head. I am a top agent in my office, and I am the happiest I have ever been. (applause) It may have taken me 52 years, but I now completely embrace my weird, bright light knowing I am not for everyone. (applause)

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JENETTE JURCZYK  15:44  Which tattoo are we going to talk about first?
 
KERRY ROSSOW  15:47  I...
 
HEATHER SCHMIDT  15:48  Every one. Kerry, do you have questions about any of the tattoos we can go that way.
 
KERRY  15:54 I'm like, are we going to talk about your piece? What are we going to talk about here? Let's go. I got to tell you right out of the gates. You You had me. I could so relate. I was a middle child in the big family, and so I was like, oh, okay, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to fly under the radar. I'm going to I'm going to be so fabulous. I'm not going to cause any stress for anybody. So like, right out of the gates when you were talking about that, I know where this is going, and I love this woman.
 
JENETTE  16:17 So when you have to play the good girl, what does that do to you internally?
 
HEATHER  16:22 It absolutely kills my soul. I lose a little bit of myself every time.
 
JENETTE  16:26 Wow, it took you some time to find your true self. It was a journey for years,
 
HEATHER  16:32 It was and it continues to be,
 
JENETTE  16:34 Oh, I love that. I look at you and I see a woman who knows who she is, is comfortable in her skin and owns it. And hearing your story, I kind of know why now, but we look at people and we make so many assumptions you know, about who they are and why they are, but to peel back the layers and understand, you know, it wasn't always like this. I I had to find myself, and you did. I'm gonna say one tattoo at a time.
 
KERRY  17:02 Yes, well, I think when you take away all of those things, am I this way? Am I this good girl persona, because that's who I innately am, or am I doing it in reaction to you have to peel all that away and and find it, find exactly what you did.
 
JENETTE  17:17 How old were you when you got the rose?
 
HEATHER  17:19 Senior in high school. So was I 18? Yes, 18.
 
JENETTE  17:23 And it was such an act of defiance and bravery, right?
 
HEATHER  17:25 Yeah, I don't want to sound like I walked uphill both ways to school, but in the 80s, it absolutely was
 
JENETTE  17:31 Oh, yeah. Oh, I'll tell you today, my parents would disown me if I got a tattoo. Really, 50 years old? Oh, absolutely, absolutely I have zero.
 
HEATHER  17:40 I really, I don't either, although, I have to say, some girlfriends and I in college, we were over served and went to get matching tattoos. And the guy was like, ladies, come back sober. And we never did, but we missed our tattoo artist well, because who knows what we would have wound up with, you know. So do you have any new ones?
 
HEATHER  18:01  No, I do not.
 
JENETTE  18:03 The show is only a few months ago, Kerry.
 
KERRY ROSSOW  18:05 I know, but that was
 
HEATHER  18:07  It's funny. I was in Colorado and we were talking about getting mission tattoos the other night, and we did not get them.
 
KERRY  18:12 I think our logo would be a nice addition with my initials.
 
JENETTE  18:17 Alright, I'm emailing you the file right now, wrong word
 
HEATHER  18:26 I was thinking TWSS. That's what it stands for?
 
KERRY   18:28 Yes, yes. Well, often, if I'm in an airport or somewhere and I have on it, that's what she said, shirt or she said, there's always some smart ass in the crowd. What'd she say? Huh? I'm like, come closer friend,
 
JENETTE  18:43 I'll tell you, Okay, I want to know you shared your story. Were you nervous?
 
HEATHER  18:51 I was not. I have to think about that. During rehearsal, when my story wasn't coming together, it was paralyzing. And all of the self doll and all of that negative the self worth all bubbled to the surface. And so there are many times it was like, am I actually going to be on stage? Am I going to have to quit? Am I going to be asked to come off the cast? So I was nervous when it wasn't coming together. Once it came together so organically, and I just knew I was in a state of flow. It was this is it. And being on stage was like going home.
 
JENETTE  19:30 I love that. So you shared your story. What were the reactions that night
 
HEATHER  19:35 Afterwards the number of people that stopped me showed me their tattoos, unexpected.
 
JENETTE  19:40  You empowered them. You empowered them. You made it
 
HEATHER  19:42  okay, yes. And I have been places where somebody's like, Oh, I saw you talk and I teach my train, and they're like, I saw you at the college, and I was like, when did I teach at the college? And I didn't even piece those together because I wasn't thinking. Of it, as we were at a college, I was thinking of is I was with my sisters in a building. So it's just it's been a little overwhelming and incredibly honoring for how many people it has continued to resonate with
 
KERRY  20:14 Oh, I bet.
 
JENETTE  20:14 Well, I think there are so many women out there who live their lives in hiding, and you kind of gave a playbook of you know how to step by step, express yourself and figure out how to be comfortable being yourself in any circumstance, in a professional world with relationships with family and friends. And so the lessons were numerous and inaudible for sure.
 
HEATHER  20:42 Thank you. You're right. It has to catch myself a lot when I say I feel like I'm meant to be on stage. It's not that I'm meant to be the star or look at me. It is I am meant to empower others. I want to create a space where others give themselves permission to be whoever the heck they want. That's what I want.
 
JENETTE  21:05 Because what's the alternative, right? Walking around pretending for years, for lifetimes, for some unfortunately, and what you stand for is what so many women crave and men, but we're going to talk about women today.
 
HEATHER  21:20 Yeah, and I well, said I came across confident, but the body image circle was like, Well, I think that would have also been a reason why I told Ellen, like, Let's do next year or two years, like, I'm giving some time to lose weight.
 
JENETTE  21:32 (gasp) Oh really?
 
HEATHER  21:33 And then I realized, oh yeah. And then I realized, that's another thing I am here to empower. What do you do? Like, regardless, right? It's a really emotional thing for me.
 
JENETTE  21:44 Thank you. Thank you for saying yes anyway. Thank you for doing it anyway. Yes, yes, Queen.
 
KERRY  21:51 My head's about to fall off my shoulders. I'm nodding so hard, wow.
 
HEATHER  21:55 Yeah, that was it came to a point where, no, I'm going to do this exactly how I am, the size I am, the shape I am, because we all have a place.
 
KERRY  22:06 Everybody has a seat at the table.
 
HEATHER  22:08 Yes. So if me being plus size on stage, get someone else who has that same doubt and that same insecurity some competence or a little a little bit of permission, then absolutely well,
 
KERRY ROSSOW  22:21 And we always say, everybody has a seat at the table. But if our cast doesn't represent that, it kind of takes the wind out of our sails. We want our cast to be really diverse in every way, in age and ethnicity and how we look, and
 
JENETTE  22:34 To be real, to be real like we do look for women who are comfortable sharing these things, because we want real life. We don't want to put on we're not putting on the show. I mean, we're putting on a show. We're actually stripping all of those pretenses and putting real life on stage and handing women a microphone. That's it. There it is. And you, you showed up to the party.
 
HEATHER  22:53 Thank you. And I'm thinking about some like, little catchy phrase, like we're on stage and not in costumes, not like we're naked, but stripped out like we don't. I was not in theater, so I can't come up with some kitschy phrase, but it's there somewhere. I like that.
 
JENETTE  23:09 We're going to use it. Come with us. Get stripped down.
 
KERRY  23:11 Wait a minute, this took a turn, Jurczyk! to put you on the stage.
 
JENETTE  23:18 We're going to put you on the stage.
 
KERRY  23:21 Back to the kinky creeper.
 
JENETTE  23:22 We're gonna bear your soul.
 
KERRY  23:25 Okay, bearing something. Sis,
 
JENETTE  23:30 So Heather, what's next for you? I mean, you are, you know, this rocking realtor, yeah,
 
HEATHER  23:35 I just keep hearing ‘take the show on the road.’ I want more of this. I want, I want to empower others, and I want to have an impact. I'm working on my values and priorities and impact and contribution and empowerment are at the top of the list. So whatever that looks like, I'm in,
 
KERRY  23:53 count me in.
 
JENETTE  23:54 I love that, and you've built your world to do that. You're not just a realtor. You said you're a trainer. You put yourself in places and spaces where you get to help others be the best version of themselves. And I want to use this as an example. You can do this in any industry, in any setting. You can be an example for others in the classroom, as a realtor, as a team leader, like there's there's no limit to empowering people. It doesn't matter one person's looking at you, or 1000 people are looking at you, you have the potential to have an impact and to change lives. 100% you should take the show on the road. I would watch. I would come, I'll drive.
 
HEATHER  24:34 There's a younger and newer agent in one of my offices who told me he was so amused and entertained, and he thinks I should be a stand up comedian like Well, that was an interesting response. Thank you for that. But that's not on my vision board,
 
JENETTE  24:48 Not on my vision board. Sometimes the things that surprise you, though the most unexpected humor has power, though I have learned a lot about the power of making people laugh in the platform that. We've built. I've met some women who are actual professional humorists. There's a thing I just learned. There's an organization out there that studies and celebrates humor, and I want to learn more, because I think empowering women to be funny for the right reasons and help people see the world through a different lens, there's definitely a lot of power there. So I don't know you're onto something, Heather or your friend is on to something,
 
HEATHER  25:21 and even if it's not for the purpose of being funny, for me, it is coming out of the shadows. There shouldn't be any reason to be in shame. If we can talk light about things, it helps us heal.
 
JENETTE  25:36 So true, so true. What color is your hair today?
 
HEATHER  25:39 Oh, I just got it done for my trip up here. So it is some burgundy, purple and orange caper.
 
KERRY  25:46 All right.
 
JENETTE  25:47 I love that. What inspired that part of your expression? Is there a story or it just felt right?
 
HEATHER  25:53 I was told so many times not to dye my hair. I'm a natural redhead, and it was, Oh, don't touch it. And there was just something again, that little rebelliousness tell me I can't do something and I want to do it. So shaving my head was alright, let's do this. Hair grows back, and the same thing was dying. It was just playing with color. It was and let me add my bright, fiery orange hair, sort of fading and kind of boring compared to what I had growing up. So this was like, All right, let's just have fun with it then and make it all different colors.
 
KERRY  26:26 Wow, I'm going to be you when I grow up.
 
JENETTE  26:30 If I had to write the one line message from your story and our conversation today, like the takeaway when you decided to be the authentic version of yourself. You said your business grew when you were hiding who you were. You couldn't perform as a realtor the way you wanted to, you couldn't show up the way you wanted to, and it showed in your results. It showed in your work. And so the takeaway for me from everything you shared was that you don't have to look like everybody else or act like everybody else, but when you choose to be the you you're supposed to be, you show up as the best version of you, and therefore you are successful. You can create success through that lens. That was my biggest takeaway.
 
HEATHER  27:13 I like to say, I know my light is weird, I know. And when it's dim, the other weirdos can't find me. And I say weirdo with all complete love. I love that word. So when I'm shining my light or get in my light, the other weirdest can't find me. The brighter I am. With more weird light, I attract them.
 
KERRY  27:30 I love it. My daughter said to me one time, did you know I was weird, even when I was little? And my first reaction was, you were weird? And she was like, Oh no. I mean it in the best possible way. But did you know that word for me was hard to accept as positive? But she was like, I love that we're weird. I love that you encouraged us to fly our freak flags. All right. I'm trying to embrace it.
 
JENETTE  27:51 Yeah, my kids call me weird, and I go, thank you.
 
KERRY  27:53 We are a bunch of weirdos. Let's just. Yep. Let's claim it.
 
HEATHER  27:56 Hashtag: normalize weird. Yeah, let's start this.
 
JENETTE  28:00 Let's start something right now. From day one, Kerry's line has always been, let your freak flag fly. That's been her motto. She lives it, and she brings it, you know, to the work that we get to do. And it's true, you be you, because nobody else can do it as well.
 
KERRY  28:15 So and then we get to meet women like you. I want
 
JENETTE  28:17 I want to see That's What She Said in cities coast to coast, across the country. Heck around the world, even wait. And oh, Heather, you think That's What She Said is good wait until you experience our teen program. That's What Teens Say. I struggle sometimes. I think, which one do I like more watching teen girls go through the process that you went through, but they do it in 48 hours. It's pretty darn cool.
 
HEATHER  28:36 I love that program. I've looked into it a lot. And yeah, I would love to get involved anyway.
 
JENETTE  28:41 Well, you tell Ellen, talk to Ellen. Oh, well, okay, Heather, we want to say thank you because you said yes to someone named Ellen and someone named Lisa who pitched you this idea for the show that they learned about. Like you can take this chain of events back, but it means that what we have built is working. When I get messages like the one I got from Heather, it fills my heart. It makes me know that I am living in my purpose, and I just fills me with gratitude. So Heather, you don't even know what impact you had on me by sending me that one message, that one day, it just it blew my mind. And thank you.
 
HEATHER  29:22 Thank you.
 
KERRY  29:22 Thanks for coming on. We'll stalk you later.
 
HEATHER  29:25 That was good. I'll stalk you right back.
 
JENETTE  29:28 We are going to give our listeners the wrong message on how we operate, but that's okay. We do not take ourselves too seriously. We love checking in with women who've been on the That's what she said stage. And I love that I get to spend some time with Kerry Rossow here in the Illinois Public Media studios. And we want to thank everyone who has supported us through the years. We love bringing you each week The She Said Project Podcast. Thanks for being here.
 
KERRY  29:52  over and out.
 
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